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Oh, my. *smiling* I feel a bit like Yoda. lol. So many observations, so much wondering. The answer is very easy, but it will not be revealed to you until you have one, or two, or more...and you're sitting there, one day, as they toddle around wondrously looking at the world, and you think to yourself, my house is a disaster, I look like hell, my boobs (or your gut, LOL) will never be the same, and I can't remember the last time I got 8 hours' sleep or sex for that matter (that changes after the newborn/infant phase but takes work)...and yet you could never, ever imagine your life any other way. When they're older, it's the same way, but yes, there are exceptions to this--drugs, suicide, etc...but the media and Hollywood skews so much. For most people, it is infinitely rewarding to be a parent, even during/after those "rough years". So hard for Mom2Feebs to tell Mom2FeebsBeforeKids this, she never would have listened or understood it in any way.
Oh, and raising a disabled child, is a gift beyond measure. I have a daughter with autism--she's primarily non-verbal, but she is the most amazing creature I've ever had the privilege of interacting with. You figure out what your life will be like, but it's never dread-filled thoughts. My only worry is what I must prepare for when we die. She has a little sister that adores her, and cousins that love her too, so I know she will be taken care of should something happen to us, but we have to prepare for the financial part of that so she is not a drain on them, money-wise. Right now, our joy is in the thought of retiring and showing her the world, if she hasn't already conquered it on her own! :-)
You just made my day. I also have a child with autism and he is just becoming verbal. We struggle with many aspects of our lives but man, it it a beautiful journey. I am blessed beyond measure. That is it, really.
As for the Tiger mom, did you read her book? I did, I thought she was crazy, I understand wanting your kids to do well, to be good people, to be successful, etc. But I think making your child practice violin 6 hours a day while they are crying they don't want to (EVEN ON VACATION). OR when your kids make you a birthday card and you throw it back to them and tell them it's ugly, make a better one, you are going to come across people who think your methods are too barbaric, for lack of better word.
I didn't read her book. I've just heard that she is universally considered a maniacal mother by most Americans, and her child (children?) spoke out in support of the parenting methods that are being widely bashed by Americans.
Practicing violin 6 hours a day... well... what ELSE is the kid doing? If that's 6 hours in a day when the kid is otherwise going to do nothing except watch TV, you figure he/she is awake for 16, perhaps eating and washing for two... leaving 14 free hours... if the kid does chores for one hour and practices music for 6 hours, that still amounts to only half of the available time in the day. I can assure you that my kids, if I have any, will be practicing music at least one full hour every day whether they have school work or not... and if their school work precludes practice, they'll be making that time up as soon as they can. I sure wish I'd practiced music more when I was a kid... even though I obviously practiced enough to become a professional-caliber virtuoso on piano. Had I practiced more, I could've gone that far on other instruments too. I withhold judgment of parents who insist that their kids use their most stress-free years of their lives to be productive. No person ever entered middle age wishing that he'd watched more TV or played more video games as a kid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beera
I think kids can be raised with a firm and loving hand and come out just as well as her kids.
I hope I can do it without yelling nor spanking. I figure that psychological punishment is most effective these days. "You didn't clean up your room? No TV today." "You punched your brother? No video games for the rest of the month." Things like that. I like to think that I can get my kid to do productive things by tying them into the non-productive stuff he'd want to do. For example, "you can play video games today for only as much time as you've already spent practicing music". You want to earn more video game time? Keep working on your music.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2Feebs
Oh, my. *smiling* I feel a bit like Yoda. lol. So many observations, so much wondering. The answer is very easy, but it will not be revealed to you until you have one, or two, or more...and you're sitting there, one day, as they toddle around wondrously looking at the world, and you think to yourself, my house is a disaster, I look like hell, my boobs (or your gut, LOL) will never be the same, and I can't remember the last time I got 8 hours' sleep or sex for that matter (that changes after the newborn/infant phase but takes work)...and yet you could never, ever imagine your life any other way.
I wonder if I will ever feel that way. When we were at my wife's parents' house and the dog slept downstairs sometimes (as opposed to sleeping with us all the time), I was thrilled to have the bed entirely to myself and my wife again. We could cuddle as we chose, have sex as we chose, etc. I can't believe that I will ever find my life to be so wonderful if, as you put it, I'm constantly sleep-deprived (on account of the kids or what I have to do to provide for my larger family), I'm constantly sex-deprived (on account of the stress, lack of free time, and inability to make such noise brought about by kids being in the house), and my life is constantly in disarray because the kids make messes of various types that they either cannot or will not clean up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom2Feebs
Oh, and raising a disabled child, is a gift beyond measure. I have a daughter with autism--she's primarily non-verbal, but she is the most amazing creature I've ever had the privilege of interacting with. You figure out what your life will be like, but it's never dread-filled thoughts. My only worry is what I must prepare for when we die. She has a little sister that adores her, and cousins that love her too, so I know she will be taken care of should something happen to us, but we have to prepare for the financial part of that so she is not a drain on them, money-wise. Right now, our joy is in the thought of retiring and showing her the world, if she hasn't already conquered it on her own! :-)
I can see how there are certain perks to having kids with disabilities... I've taught some... the way they see the world is often quite humorous because it's so different and they don't recognize that fact. I had a 12-year-old piano student who had, I believe, cerebral palsy... whatever it was, it derived from brain damage he'd suffered at birth due to having been oxygen-deprived somehow. One time during our lesson, I told him to play something and his response was "Okay, just cool your heels, pickle boy". I cracked up! I had absolutely no idea where that came from. I'd never talked with this kid about pickles nor eaten a pickle in his presence. Who else but a very abnormal kid would come up with THAT response to a simple request to play something on the piano?
Disabled kids can tend to retain their youthful innocence far longer than most people but at the same time they also tend to retain their youthful EVERYTHING for that long. I had an adult piano student who had a 12-year-old developmentally disabled daughter... I have no idea what the girl's issue was... she was paralyzed from the waist down, and she was probably at the maturity level of an average 5-year-old. She loved to rip paper into a pile of tiny shreds. Oh, she had her moments of being hilarious... her mom said it was "her pleasure" to raise this girl and live with her... maybe so... but when you're still changing diapers on a 12-year-old who is quite fat because she's unable to do much physical motion, I don't see how that's much fun. Eventually you get to the point where you can no longer physically handle such care.
I'm sure I have much to learn, but the problem is that learning all of this requires pulling the trigger on a situation that is going to change my life forever... since I can't guarantee that that change will be for the better (drastic change rarely is, at least in my life), it scares the crap out of me.
At least y'all are answering the question intelligently and thoroughly. I have appreciated the responses I've gotten thus far.
Because we, as women, carry babies in our own bodies, we do get that biological urge to have children. To my knowledge, men don't have that.
And, I don't mean this in a mean way, but it's not too surprising to me that you have an ex-wife. I only mean this because judging by your posts, I would suspect that you are an intense person with a very strong personality. That's a good thing in many ways, but your logicalness is not condusive to the abstract concept of having children. There are no quarentees with kids. It's a great big giant crap shoot.
However, you appear to have a lot of extra time on your hands to construct these long posts. You will need it because your time will be eaten up by having a child. A person can never understand that until you have one. So, if you find that you are unwilling or unable to go through several years of pure unselfishness, please, do not have a baby. And by all means, assure that your marriage is stable, because it will be tested.
Best of luck to you and especially your wife. You are by no means wrong for examining your feelings. But I don't think you're going to get a clear cut answer. I feel the only reason to have kids is pretty nebulous.....biological need, unconditional love, to keep your lineage alive. I don't think that there is one of us out there, if we are totally honest with ourself, who at one time or another didn't say, "my God, why did I do this?"
Not all of us. I never wanted kids, ever. I had no burning desire for kids, no maternal urges, no panic about my biological clock winding down. I could pretty much take kids or leave them, but never had a hankering for my own.
After I got married, IT WAS EXPECTED OF ME. I was called all kinds of selfish for not wanting children, and I got hit with both barrels....husband and parents. So, long story short, I gave in.
I also became a single mother with an autistic child in no time flat.
Do I love my son? Absolutely and unconditionally. If I knew what I was getting into, would I do it again? I honestly don't know.
No point. Just because society says its the norm. I'll never have kids. Sorry my freedom and financial security is paramount.
You are making the correct decision. I meet parents like you all of the time and I think, "why did they have kids when all they care about is freedom and financial security"? These people are horrible parents. I am glad to hear that you will remain child-free.
No one can answer your question. Unfortunately you can't know until you actaully have a child because you are so unsure. I am a 67 soon to be 68 year old woman who knew from the time I was a child myself I never wanted kids and never had them. I have always been happy about my decision.
It never was a matter of having more money, a career or pets. It wasn't a material thing. I simply have no maternal instinct. There are many men and women my age who felt this way but bowed to the pressures of society and had kids. There are many unhappy kids resulting from these situations. Nowadays it is more acceptable to choose to be childfree but not so much as one would hope.
My life has had its ups and downs. But that had nothing to do with my decision. That has been the result of many other decisions I have made both good and bad. After a ten year marriage broke up, all my decisions were mine. No, the marriage did not break up because of the no-kid thing. My ex was on the same page with that.
In your situation, OP, it is not just you, it's the person you love who definitely wants children while you are on the fence. That's tough. But I can't see where anyone can tell you it will be a good or a bad thing for you to have them. If you decide to take the plunge just to please your wife and you are happy, great. But if the opposite happens, not so great.
Perhaps you should seek out one of the many childfree websites on the Internet and ask your question there. You might find people who have been in your position who can help. You have gotten opinions from a parenting forum, why not try the other side? One way or another you will have to make up your mind but your wife has to realize that she is in this with you. She should be willing to make a sacrifice to support you just as you might be willing to make one for her. The burden shouldn't be just on you. To me it sounds as if you are the only one in your relationship trying to justify her wishes of having kids. Why isn't she trying to see things from your perspective of the possibility of not having them?
No one can answer your question. Unfortunately you can't know until you actaully have a child because you are so unsure. I am a 67 soon to be 68 year old woman who knew from the time I was a child myself I never wanted kids and never had them. I have always been happy about my decision.
It never was a matter of having more money, a career or pets. It wasn't a material thing. I simply have no maternal instinct. There are many men and women my age who felt this way but bowed to the pressures of society and had kids. There are many unhappy kids resulting from these situations. Nowadays it is more acceptable to choose to be childfree but not so much as one would hope.
My life has had its ups and downs. But that had nothing to do with my decision. That has been the result of many other decisions I have made both good and bad. After a ten year marriage broke up, all my decisions were mine. No, the marriage did not break up because of the no-kid thing. My ex was on the same page with that.
In your situation, OP, it is not just you, it's the person you love who definitely wants children while you are on the fence. That's tough. But I can't see where anyone can tell you it will be a good or a bad thing for you to have them. If you decide to take the plunge just to please your wife and you are happy, great. But if the opposite happens, not so great.
Perhaps you should seek out one of the many childfree websites on the Internet and ask your question there. You might find people who have been in your position who can help. You have gotten opinions from a parenting forum, why not try the other side? One way or another you will have to make up your mind but your wife has to realize that she is in this with you. She should be willing to make a sacrifice to support you just as you might be willing to make one for her. The burden shouldn't be just on you. To me it sounds as if you are the only one in your relationship trying to justify her wishes of having kids. Why isn't she trying to see things from your perspective of the possibility of not having them?
I am glad to hear you story, Minerva. I have several very good girl friends who are child-less, by choice. We have connections that are independent from motherhood or sometimes referred to as "the cult"(Sex And The City) and those connections keep me grounded to my pre- mother life! That crazy chick is still in me! . Seriously, I think it is so common now to see child-free couples who are quite happy with their fulfilled lives and society is realizing that marriage can be independent from pro-creation and vice versa. I hope the O.P. realizes that having unwanted children is a horrible thing. I meet parents all the time that I think should have chosen not to. Parenting is not for everyone.
I didn't read her book. I've just heard that she is universally considered a maniacal mother by most Americans, and her child (children?) spoke out in support of the parenting methods that are being widely bashed by Americans.
Practicing violin 6 hours a day... well... what ELSE is the kid doing? If that's 6 hours in a day when the kid is otherwise going to do nothing except watch TV, you figure he/she is awake for 16, perhaps eating and washing for two... leaving 14 free hours... if the kid does chores for one hour and practices music for 6 hours, that still amounts to only half of the available time in the day. I can assure you that my kids, if I have any, will be practicing music at least one full hour every day whether they have school work or not... and if their school work precludes practice, they'll be making that time up as soon as they can. I sure wish I'd practiced music more when I was a kid... even though I obviously practiced enough to become a professional-caliber virtuoso on piano. Had I practiced more, I could've gone that far on other instruments too. I withhold judgment of parents who insist that their kids use their most stress-free years of their lives to be productive. No person ever entered middle age wishing that he'd watched more TV or played more video games as a kid.
Read the book. BTW I wasn't raised with American parents and I think the woman went overboard. I was raised with strict middle eastern parents, came out to be pretty successful IMO, and even my parents weren't as tough as this.
6 hours a day for the violin is too much. She kept making them practice because she felt they weren't trying "hard enough." There are only 24 hours to fill in 10 for sleep (we are talking young children), 8 for school, so basically only 6 hours left, what about eating, bathing, socializing with the family, having SOME down time, etc. The woman was insane and lucky her kids didn't run away from home. SURE the kids defend her now, she's there mom. My mom's nuts but I still love her and will defend her, but victims also end up siding with their kidnappers :P
Like any other animal the main reason we exist is to reproduce. Thats why we like sex.
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