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Old 03-17-2014, 12:05 AM
 
Location: OKC
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String theory then would be a supernatural theory, as it posits the existence of an order outside our visible, observable, universe.
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Old 03-17-2014, 01:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Miss Hepburn View Post
Well, thank God for you...and you said it so kindly...I can't even respond to what I'm reading.
I know now this thread is in good hands.
Really, bless you...xxoo
Thanks for the kind words. At the end of the day I can't fathom why anyone would mind the fact that there are people that belive in the existance of God. Afterall, my beilef or your belief has no impact on their life.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:54 AM
 
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
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Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
String theory then would be a supernatural theory, as it posits the existence of an order outside our visible, observable, universe.
Oh no string theory holds that the higher dimensions are observable if you had the proper instrument.

That's not the same as the spiritual realm, which is outside of our universe/multiverse.

You can observe the effects of the spiritual realm, if a spiritual being were to choose to manifest itself in the physical universe, but you can't observe the spiritual realm itself with a scientific instrument. The human mind/heart/soul can observe it, but not a scientific instrument.
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Old 03-17-2014, 02:43 PM
 
Location: OKC
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Originally Posted by neutrino78x View Post
Oh no string theory holds that the higher dimensions are observable if you had the proper instrument.

That's not the same as the spiritual realm, which is outside of our universe/multiverse.

You can observe the effects of the spiritual realm, if a spiritual being were to choose to manifest itself in the physical universe, but you can't observe the spiritual realm itself with a scientific instrument. The human mind/heart/soul can observe it, but not a scientific instrument.
I don't think that's true.

Theoretically, one could observe the spiritual realm simply by going there, or perhaps with the correct instruments.

Pretty much the same as with string theory.

Though to make it clear, I don't believe in spiritual realms.. or a multiveres. I just don't happen to believe there is a useful distinction between natural and supernatural.
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Old 03-17-2014, 03:15 PM
 
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
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Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
Theoretically, one could observe the spiritual realm simply by going there, or perhaps with the correct instruments.
It's not a physical place, though. And unlike the universe/multiverse, it cannot be measured or observed with scientific instruments.

Extra dimensions, gravitons, and tiny black holes | CERN

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I just don't happen to believe there is a useful distinction between natural and supernatural.
Natural is the normal world we experience every day, supernatural is what lies beyond. In theory you could have a supernatural being that chooses to manifest itself in the natural world and those effects could be measured.
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Old 03-17-2014, 05:28 PM
 
Location: OKC
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Originally Posted by neutrino78x View Post
It's not a physical place, though. And unlike the universe/multiverse, it cannot be measured or observed with scientific instruments.

Extra dimensions, gravitons, and tiny black holes | CERN



Natural is the normal world we experience every day, supernatural is what lies beyond. In theory you could have a supernatural being that chooses to manifest itself in the natural world and those effects could be measured.
Why do you think that another dimension could be measured, but if we called it a "spiritual dimension" it could no longer be measured?

Certainly, another dimension, whether we called it spiritual or not, is not something we would experience every day.

I think we are about to start down a circular rabbit whole that leads to why I think the distinction between natural and supernatural is spurious. I believe there are only things that are real and things that are unreal. Natural and supernatural are loaded terms and the distinction isn't helpful in most cases.


Edit: I should note, I am not alone in criticizing string theory (or other multiverse theories) for being unfalsifiable. Since that is normally a criterion for science, String Theory begins to look even more like a supernatural claim.

Last edited by Boxcar Overkill; 03-17-2014 at 05:48 PM..
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Old 03-17-2014, 07:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by neutrino78x View Post
Oh no string theory holds that the higher dimensions are observable if you had the proper instrument.

That's not the same as the spiritual realm, which is outside of our universe/multiverse.

You can observe the effects of the spiritual realm, if a spiritual being were to choose to manifest itself in the physical universe, but you can't observe the spiritual realm itself with a scientific instrument. The human mind/heart/soul can observe it, but not a scientific instrument.
Ah, but you can ! Paranormal investigators use a variety of instruments to measure (words are inadequate here) super natural, sub natural, etc events when "spirits" manifest.

Personally, I think it IS inter dimensional - be it dead human beings, or beings from other dimensions.
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:06 PM
 
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
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Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
Why do you think that another dimension could be measured, but if we called it a "spiritual dimension" it could no longer be measured?
Because in the context of the phrase "spiritual dimension", the word "dimension" does not mean the same as it does in the context of the phrase "there are four dimensions, namely length, width, depth, and time".

In the former case, we are talking about a separate realm apart from the physical universe/multiverse/cosmos.

In the latter case, we are talking about properties of the physical universe, or parallel universes within the multiverse, which can be observed with a scientific instrument and measured objectively.

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Certainly, another dimension, whether we called it spiritual or not, is not something we would experience every day.
Yes, but if you read the CERN link, it tells you that parallel universes or higher physical dimensions in this universe should have effects on our universe that can be predicted and tested. There is no such prediction for the spiritual realm.
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:11 PM
 
Location: "Silicon Valley" (part of San Francisco Bay Area, California, USA)
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Originally Posted by LivingDeadGirl View Post
Ah, but you can ! Paranormal investigators use a variety of instruments to measure (words are inadequate here) super natural, sub natural, etc events when "spirits" manifest.
I think I mentioned that, right? If a being from the spiritual realm were to choose to manifest itself in this universe, we could measure the manifestations. But I see what you're saying.

I believe there is a God and that is an example of something spiritual which one can't objectively measure. And if you talk about a non-personal version of God such as "The Force" as seen on Star Wars, that's just a different interpretation of the same thing. Like the ancient Greek and Roman gods, viewed collectively, are also God.
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:33 PM
 
Location: OKC
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Originally Posted by neutrino78x View Post
Because in the context of the phrase "spiritual dimension", the word "dimension" does not mean the same as it does in the context of the phrase "there are four dimensions, namely length, width, depth, and time".

In the former case, we are talking about a separate realm apart from the physical universe/multiverse/cosmos.

In the latter case, we are talking about properties of the physical universe, or parallel universes within the multiverse, which can be observed with a scientific instrument and measured objectively.



Yes, but if you read the CERN link, it tells you that parallel universes or higher physical dimensions in this universe should have effects on our universe that can be predicted and tested. There is no such prediction for the spiritual realm.
I don't think your definition of the spiritual dimension is accurate. I think most theist would happily accept the spiritual dimension is simply a different multiverse. I haven't seen or heard any religious literature that would limit the definition the way you have. Particularly if you go outside of Christianity. Most theist believe a spiritual realm not part of this universe, but reallly not much more in the way of qualification is theorized.


The CERN link doesn't posit a test that is falsifiable. It only states that someday we MIGHT find some evidence that "might suggest the presence of extra dimensions."

But the lack of that evidence wouldn't prove the multiverse isn't real.
Thus string theory is a non-falsifiable theory. We can never prove that it isn't true... like God, or unicorns. Someday we may be able to find evidence it is real, but we can't prove that it's not.

One could say the same thing about the theory that Leprechauns exist. Yes, someday we might find evidence that they are real (we could catch one at the end of a rainbow) but the theory isn't falsifiable. We can't prove either DON'T exist.

String Theory and Spiritual Dimensions can't be distinguished based on supernaturality.
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