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I've struggled through existential depression for quite some while in my early teens (now in my late teens/early adulthood) and I've come to the conclusion that I simply need to go through the process of living life as it is and create meaning for myself, i.e. setting up goals to reach, do things that I enjoy doing, explore and anticipate the future and possibilities, etc. I don't know and can't know for sure if there's a greater purpose or meaning to life, I've pondered but it has only made me depressed and unmotivated. There were even moments where I wish I was never born, but for some reason I kept thinking that if I was not born as me then I would have been born as someone else. It probably has something to do with my tight grasp and awareness of my personal essence.
I'm not going to argue about whether souls exist, but if there's a good reason that it doesn't, it's definitely not because of how we do not have memories of being conscious before we were born. You have no memories of when you were very young either but that doesn't mean that you were not conscious or doesn't exist at that very moment. There were actually records of very young children having memories from 'past life' and eventually forget about it as they get older, and while there are other factors to take into account like the credibility of the story, it's still something quite meaningful to think about if you're a fence sitter.
Great post, I am going to post something from another topic of mine here. I want to know why we are born whom we are. I can't event figure out why it is they way it is? are we selected to be in the bodies that we are? are we conscious blobs of matter? if that's true then why doe sour consciousness end up as being who we are?
I have asked this question before on other threads. I found these question written elsewhere (On another website), what do you guys think? This person has written this question out better than I did so I am using theirs rather than my own.
At this moment in time there are some 6 billion people alive on earth. Moreover, there have been billions alive in the past – before me – and there will be billions more after me. Yet, of all these human beings, there is one individual (from my perspective) that stands out from the rest, that’s different from all the others. And that person, of course, is me. Presumably I could have been any one of all those billions. But something determined that I would be on the inside of this particular body. What determined that? How was that association made? What determined that my consciousness would manifest itself in this (my) particular body – out of all those others? I understand that mind and body go hand in hand and that one’s consciousness develops from one’s experiences. If I had an identical twin, for example, we would be genetically identical but differ in our experiences. But, in my opinion, that’s not enough to justify why my consciousnes manifested itself inside only one of those bodies. I can’t help feeling there’s just got to be an answer to this question.
Posing the question is hard enough – which is why I was glad to see your wording.
Why is my consciousness in this particular body, and why does so much of who I am seem predefined? I am struggling to come to terms with the fundamental alienation I feel from all other entities. I can never truly know anyone because I cannot experience their consciousness; I can only perceive them in a manner which is, essentially, primarily a reflection of my own consciousness. Am I alone in feeling this way?
Out of all the people born and existing through out history and still alive today, why did I happen to be this one? It’s really hard to understand…
I mean what the heck am I, the part that is observing all of this? I mean I know I can see my body and interact with physical objects, but I feel like there is something underneath that is observing it happening, something sort of timeless.
I hope that by this point of the thread you've understood there is no point for any of the ~115 billion people who've died, or for the 7 billion people currently alive, or for the however many trillions of organisms who have "died" since the start of life.
I hope that by this point of the thread you've understood there is no point for any of the ~115 billion people who've died, or for the 7 billion people currently alive, or for the however many trillions of organisms who have "died" since the start of life.
Wowzers! So YOU are the one who decides whether or not life is pointless for a HUNDRED BILLION people! And all the while, many billions of them were/are thoroughly deceived into thinking that there IS, most definitely, a purpose to their lives!
YOU are SO SMART! What prestigious institution of higher education did you spend your life studying at, to learn so MUCH about the meaninglessness and purposelessness of human life?
But of course, your statement does leave one question unanswered: Why do you - and so many others who share your views - feel so COMPELLED to 'teach' everyone else your pointless perspective??
If life is pointless, then what people do or don't believe is pointless, and your arguments are pointless.
Wowzers! So YOU are the one who decides whether or not life is pointless for a HUNDRED BILLION people! And all the while, many billions of them were/are thoroughly deceived into thinking that there IS, most definitely, a purpose to their lives!
YOU are SO SMART! What prestigious institution of higher education did you spend your life studying at, to learn so MUCH about the meaninglessness and purposelessness of human life?
But of course, your statement does leave one question unanswered: Why do you - and so many others who share your views - feel so COMPELLED to 'teach' everyone else your pointless perspective??
If life is pointless, then what people do or don't believe is pointless, and your arguments are pointless.
Well, even though I take a fairly positive approach to the matter, I agree with Matt at the core that there is not really any "point" to life in the way that it's generally posed in philosophical discussions. My belief is that the point of life is literally to live, and from there, it's up to the individual to interpret their own meaning. It can be something grand or noble, such as helping to cure cancer or AIDS or start an orphanage in Cambodia, or it can be something personally fulfilling, i.e. to make music and art or to simply make money to live a comfortable life, or it can be as mundane as living to eat delicious food, watch fascinating movies, read interesting books, or play cool video games. Some people create, others consume; neither can really exist without the other and so long as you are living a life that you find meaning in, then it's perfectly valid. Some people find meaning in others' meanings. Others find meaning in their own solipism. Some people find meanings in faith. Others find meanings in ennui. It's a really fascinating and amazing thing, on a spectrum as broad as there are people on earth.
So to sum it up: IMO there is no point to life, and that is the very point to life... which I think is something beautiful and wonderful.
If we are all going to die and fade into nonexistence and we assume there no after life and no god, just non existence. Like Before we were born. Then what's the point? How do we cope with this every second of the day fading away moment to moment into non existence?
Do we just replicate our genes and that's it?
Generally speaking it seems to me there is no afterlife.
How do we cope with finite life? I am having trouble accepting this. I get panic attacks about it
One minute I was a baby I remember my childhood well, then my teens, then 20's and now I'm 34 and it's going by quick, soon I will be old then I will die. Everyone will die. My dog will die.
It's happening to me so quickly. We are all in the same boat.
We could be killed at any point before old age.
Into nonexistence.
I am having trouble accepting this for some reason.
What do I do with my time here. I don't know anymore...
Why does there have to be a point? You cope with it by treating each moment as if it might be your last (because it might) - not panicking over the fact, just accepting that there are better things to do then worry about it (because there isn't a lot you can do about it anyway), like appreciating the time you have while you have it and the people in your life, and making something of it. Like Mark Twain once said, the world doesn't owe us anything - it was here first.
Great post, I am going to post something from another topic of mine here. I want to know why we are born whom we are. I can't event figure out why it is they way it is? are we selected to be in the bodies that we are? are we conscious blobs of matter? if that's true then why doe sour consciousness end up as being who we are?
I have asked this question before on other threads. I found these question written elsewhere (On another website), what do you guys think? This person has written this question out better than I did so I am using theirs rather than my own.
At this moment in time there are some 6 billion people alive on earth. Moreover, there have been billions alive in the past – before me – and there will be billions more after me. Yet, of all these human beings, there is one individual (from my perspective) that stands out from the rest, that’s different from all the others. And that person, of course, is me. Presumably I could have been any one of all those billions. But something determined that I would be on the inside of this particular body. What determined that? How was that association made? What determined that my consciousness would manifest itself in this (my) particular body – out of all those others? I understand that mind and body go hand in hand and that one’s consciousness develops from one’s experiences. If I had an identical twin, for example, we would be genetically identical but differ in our experiences. But, in my opinion, that’s not enough to justify why my consciousnes manifested itself inside only one of those bodies. I can’t help feeling there’s just got to be an answer to this question.
Posing the question is hard enough – which is why I was glad to see your wording.
Why is my consciousness in this particular body, and why does so much of who I am seem predefined? I am struggling to come to terms with the fundamental alienation I feel from all other entities. I can never truly know anyone because I cannot experience their consciousness; I can only perceive them in a manner which is, essentially, primarily a reflection of my own consciousness. Am I alone in feeling this way?
Out of all the people born and existing through out history and still alive today, why did I happen to be this one? It’s really hard to understand…
I mean what the heck am I, the part that is observing all of this? I mean I know I can see my body and interact with physical objects, but I feel like there is something underneath that is observing it happening, something sort of timeless.
Here are some words of wisdom that has sustained me for many years, and it comes from a surprising source:
“A human being is part of a whole, called by us the ‘Universe’ —a part limited in time and space and personal consciousness. He experiences himself, his thoughts, and feelings, as something separated from the rest—a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. While no one can achieve this completely, the striving for such achievement is a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security.”
OK - so you all seem to think to think that there is a point to the pointlessness of life, which I hope you will forgive me for not quite understanding . . .
But you seem to sidestep the question of God, other than to rest on the comfortable assumption that He does not exist, which absolutely cannot be proven; or that if He does, His existence, relative to your own, is unimportant.
I fail to see how this is not the absolute most important question of all. If there IS "intelligent design" behind the intricacies of our universe and the life it contains, then there must be a point to life that exists for far greater purpose than the pleasures and pursuits of the individual.
The answer to this one question is the ultimate "game changer."
Last edited by DoTheMath7; 05-26-2014 at 08:48 AM..
OK - so you all seem to think to think that there is a point to the pointlessness of life, which I hope you will forgive me for not quite understanding . . .
But you seem to sidestep the question of God, other than to rest on the comfortable assumption that He does not exist, which absolutely cannot be proven; or that if He does, His existence, relative to your own, is unimportant.
I fail to see how this is not the absolute most important question of all. If there IS "intelligent design" behind the intricacies of our universe and the life it contains, then there must be a point to life that exists for far greater purpose than the pleasures and pursuits of the individual.
The answer to this one question is the ultimate "game changer."
Why do you believe that? Why even if there is a creator must there be a point and purpose to life?
What if your god created sentient life just to see if they could create their own purpose?
OK - so you all seem to think to think that there is a point to the pointlessness of life, which I hope you will forgive me for not quite understanding . . .
But you seem to sidestep the question of God, other than to rest on the comfortable assumption that He does not exist, which absolutely cannot be proven; or that if He does, His existence, relative to your own, is unimportant.
I fail to see how this is not the absolute most important question of all. If there IS "intelligent design" behind the intricacies of our universe and the life it contains, then there must be a point to life that exists for far greater purpose than the pleasures and pursuits of the individual.
The answer to this one question is the ultimate "game changer."
There is a point to life, a very selfish, but necessary one. The point to all life is to live long enough to reproduce more life. All life is hardwired for it. And whether or not if satisfies our expectations, or we ever achieve it, that one point and the memories we leave for our loved ones, is likely the closest we will ever get to achieving immortality. Forget an afterlife. In the end, we are all worm food, and personally, it doesn't bother me knowing that the molecules that make up me will live on in some other life form. That too is how we achieve immortality.
As for "intelligent design", its a religious delusion, nothing more. The universe is not finely tuned for us, is not here for us. Instead, we are adapted to it. If we weren't, there would be no place in this universe where we could exist - think of all the places where we cannot live: That would be the bulk of the universe.
Why do you believe that? Why even if there is a creator must there be a point and purpose to life?
What if your god created sentient life just to see if they could create their own purpose?
Ah yes, the good ol' "what ifs!"
So if you want to use the what ifs, I will counter with "Pascal's Wager." Yes, I know the refutations "what if Zeus is real," etc., but that doesn't, at all, invalidate his point. What if the God of the Bible IS who the Bible says He is, and Heaven and Hell are real?
You DO know the rest of it, do you not? When I first came to this conclusion, it was entirely on my own.
In case you are not familiar with "Pascal's Wager" . . . I believe in the God and Heaven and Hell of the Bible - for numerous reasons, many predating my conversion from agnosticism to Christianity - and you apparently don't. Should we both die in our current beliefs, and IF the Bible is untrue and there is no God or afterlife, you, although you were right, will be no better off than I. We will both simply cease to exist. Neither of us will even know who was or wasn't right.
But on the other hand, if the Bible is proven TRUE, then while I am in an eternal Paradise, basking in the Light of God's love, you will be left in "the outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth." Although it won't be of any particular significance since nothing can then be done about it, we will both know, for all eternity, what was true.
But please understand, I will not be in Heaven because I am such a good person. I am no better than you. The key to Heaven's gate is not what we have or have not done, it is what Jesus did for us, and whether or not we have accepted His gift and submitted to Him. In other words, if the Bible is true, then you CANNOT, effectively, take the stance that "well, if there IS a God and Heaven, I'm sure I will go there because I am basically a good person!" That isn't how it works! You can't enter Heaven on your own merits - you and I are NOT "good enough" on our own.
Last edited by DoTheMath7; 05-26-2014 at 10:46 AM..
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