Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Philosophy
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-13-2014, 07:20 PM
 
Location: San Diego CA
8,384 posts, read 6,748,659 times
Reputation: 16709

Advertisements

Three or four glasses of Chardonnay usually resolves these kind of questions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-13-2014, 09:18 PM
 
1,626 posts, read 3,882,686 times
Reputation: 381
I went out for a day . There are allot of posts to read I will be on it now

As the OP I try to get back to as many as I can
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2014, 09:31 PM
 
1,626 posts, read 3,882,686 times
Reputation: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by foos2 View Post
Swan Dive,

I completely relate to your existential crisis. I went through a similar experience, including a lot of anxiety, when I was about 25 yrs old. I ultimately came through it (13 years ago), but the process required lots of thinking about the "big questions" that you ask. Here's a bit of what I came up with:

I think there's reason enough to not believe in a personal god (someone who answers prayers, etc), but there's enough uncertainty about the purpose of the universe, why anything exists, etc., to conclude that there is no meaning at all. There is an important distinction we must make: you fading into nonexistence does not mean that civilization and humanity as a whole must fade into nonexistence. I believe that after I die, the mind and personality that comprise "me" will be no longer. However, I like to think of humanity's existence on this planet -- and in this universe --as a kind of game. We are tasked with discovering all of the secrets to the universe, and civilization as a whole might one day find peace, explore other planets, and find some higher purpose that we aren't yet able to understand. As a result, I have made it a life goal to contribute to the cause of humanity. I will help to discover knowledge, I will help others in their daily lives, and I will help promote peace. I also think this finite thing called life is an amazing gift, so I will seek simple pleasures along the way, as long as this pursuit doesn't hurt others.

For me, part of rejecting the personal god (while committing myself to a greater purpose) meant that I have had to gradually release much of my ego. This, I learned, is in line with the basic tenets of buddhist thought, in which life has purpose but personal ego is the root of all suffering. The release of ego is also important to a soldier going into battle (a very non-buddhist thing!), where your life is in service for the greater good. I like to think of myself as servicing the goals of humanity.

A few years after going through this thought evolution, I had some serious medical scares, and I prepared for the possibility of not surviving them. While these were obviously very difficult times, they were easier to navigate since I had already released some of my ego.

I recommend taking a look at the belief system and goals of "secular humanism." Many people who faced the same questions as you emerged as humanists, led satisfying lives, and went on to make amazing contributions to our world.

Another poster mentioned the singularity. This is the point in time when humans become fused with our technological inventions and thus potentially immortal. Proponents of this event believe it will happen around 2045 or sooner. I recommend googling Ray Kurzweil, who is one well known proponent (but not the first).

Finally, a last piece of advice: When pondering the most fundamental questions of existence, some people experience a positive feeling -- one of great wonder -- while others experience anxiety. This tells me that the questions (and possible answers) themselves are not emotionally troublesome. For you, think about whether there are things going on in your life outside of the big questions that are anxiety inducing. e.g., difficult relationship, job trouble, moving, or other tough situation. I was experiencing some of these things when I had my existential crisis, and I later came to realize that the anxiety wasn't about the lack of life after death, but rather, it was about the much more practical day to day things. If you do have serious anxiety, you really should tell your doctor about it.

Be well, and know that you're not alone.
I do have serious Anxiety but I am not ready to see anyone yet. I get panic attacks thinking about death and being no more.

I want to live forever, people say death makes life worth living. I don't agree. I would do anything, learn more instruments do new hobbies read more. I wouldn't get bored at all

What happened to me was about month ago. I saw a you tube video well produced about a dying dog, these guys found it and took it home and watched over it and then it died. It had a drink of water and then died shortly after.

I can't understand why in one single moment, it's alive and then it dies in to nonexistence. Yet they were there for a simple moment for it's last existence, That will be all of us at some point..

I then think about my life and have an opened question, which I do not understand

How do you handle nonexistence? I simply can't for some reason, I can't handle being erased. It makes me wonder... was I truly lucky to even live and be born? Maybe people never born were the lucky ones. Because we know what life was like good and bad and then it's taken away from us. Not born people never new and didn't need to be bothered.

Do you think all of us are here by chance?

If I needed a specific sperm and egg to make me, and different sperm would have made someone else let's say
That indicates a formula for my existence (Specific DNA and only that DNA is the code to make me) and all of us has that unique formula.

If a different sperm and egg met, and the formula is made someone else and they are born and not me. How their consciousness differ from mine? How could they become an "I" and they become an "I"
If's that true. and I got the lucky sperm and I arrive, then how can I account for my own subjective experience? vs. the formula for another person.

I could have only been me no matter what( with that specific sperm and egg). So let's say random sperm hits the egg and my specific formula was chosen, and now I exist.
That means I could have only existed one way with this specific DNA and I could not have been anyone else no matter what.

Then who am I living through these eyes? and where does my sense of self come from? and I don't mean Biology. I already know the brain stuff.

If I can only be me, am I inevitable then if the correct sperm and eggs meet.?.and some one else is also possibly inevitable if their specific Sperm and Egg meet ?
Then we each have some deterministic formula and we are not random. But having that formula for each person be born might be random?

But we both see the world in our own eyes? we're both different people and who am I on the inside?
How can I account for being myself? How can I account only looking at world in this body and my unique experience and self awareness.?

The only thing I know is my own life. I can never see the world as anyone else, only as me in my own eyes and brain.

What determines that I can only be me and my sense of self-awareness and thought are mine.

My entire view of the world is separate from another person, I can only be me and they can only be them.Then how did I get to be me and self aware?

I can never cross over and be someone else. Why is my total sense of self only based of that DNA? and I am locked in as me? I am me and why is that?




This so tough to explain and ask
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2014, 09:36 PM
 
1,626 posts, read 3,882,686 times
Reputation: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by JrzDefector View Post
I suppose I once had anxiety about this kind of thing. I have dealt with both anxiety and depression, and they're not fun. These days though, I don't really care if life has meaning or not. Who cares if there's an afterlife?

I have good people in my life now whom I cherish and love. I take pleasure in anything from bacon cheeseburger to a well-turned phrase to the rhythm of an old Waylon Jennings song. I love to be in my pickup with a full tank of gas on a sunny day. I love the vicarious thrill of watching my Catahoula run hell-for-leather to fetch a ball and then leap 6 feet into the air to grab it before it hits the ground.

Yeah, everything comes to an end - but there will be other people, other dogs, more books, more music, etc. I'm here to suck every moment of joy out of the world around me. Why does there have to be a greater meaning?

Now, at the same time I've got a pretty well-developed moral compass. Why bother? Why not descend into a spiral of hedonism? Why bother to care about the fate of strangers or how my actions affect peopel outside my circle of loved ones? Well, because the things that bring me joy would not be possible without a basic social structure that is reliant on the majority of us following some basic guidelines. There is also a pleasure to be found in being nice to people, even if they might never have a chance to reciprocate in kind. I'm not huge on the idea of a greater meaning, but I do believe that you get out what you put into the world, by and large. If your actions and words add to the joy/happiness/wellbeing of others, you will get back the same. It sounds hippy dippy, but it's really just logic.

Life is short. There's a lot of fun to be had, a lot of awesome things to experience. Why waste time brooding about death and gloom?

Here is post from someone else that I am having a discussion with. It's regards to our grand purpose.

We may be wired to look for one what do you think of this?

Why do so many people THINK that there must be a grand purpose? There are studies that look into "selective teleology" and "promiscuous teleology", the tendency of people to think that all things were designed for a purpose rather than emerging by chance from mechanical natural events. Personally, I think that this happens because, whenever a child asks "Why?", most parents try to give an answer in the form "Because it benefits some living being", rather than an answer in the form "As an unavoidable consequence of these natural processes". That works within the fields of human endeavors [Why is a 747 so big? Why is this highway here? Why is this behavior illegal?] but not for natural processes [Why does the giraffe have such a long neck? Why does the sun shine? Why are plants green? Why do earthquakes happen? Why did life emerge? Why does it rain? Why do our brains / hearts / stomachs work this way? Why do people get colds / AIDS / cancer?]. Parents try to answer "Why?" questions about nature with reasons rather than causes ["So that the giraffe can reach the leaves on tall trees", "It rains so that farmers crops can grow"... rather than explaining natural selection, or cloud formation], which leads people to expect a reason [not just a cause] for everything. That may not be the actual cause for why people expect for there to be purposes everywhere, but it is my hypothesis. Another hypothesis, discussed by people like Daniel Dennett and Michael Shermer, is that we have evolved to see intention where there is none. [EDIT: They say we have a "Hyperactive Agency Detection Device". I'm trying to remember what these things are called so that you can Google them if you want more details]. As our ancestors wandered around the wilderness, if a bush rustled, the people who thought "There is probably a being in there, we should be careful" were less likely to get eaten by predators, or killed by adversaries, than the people who thought "It's probably just the wind or some other natural thing that I don't need to worry about". So maybe there was an evolutionary pressure to see predators / spirits behind natural phenomena, and to be wary of them. I don't know if that's true either. But, bottom line: for some reason [wait, I mean: Due to some cause], people expect to see purpose and deliberate design and a "reason" behind everything, even when there is none to be found).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2014, 09:40 PM
 
1,626 posts, read 3,882,686 times
Reputation: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
OK, here you go. I think most would agree that the life force within us is a form of energy. Yes? The laws of physics teach us that energy is neither created nor destroyed. That means that we have been around in one form or another since the beginning of the universe and we will continue to be around in one form or another after our earthly existance is over. I have no idea what forms this energy may take, but at age 33 I "died" in a hospital ER when my heart stopped beating after I had been gravely injured in a terrible automobile accident. I remember a great feeling of calm and peace coming over me. I felt no longer seperate but a part of a great and wonderful whole and everything was exactly as it was supposed to be. I wanted to stay in that wonderful place I found myself in, but my father was at my bedside and kept calling me back. I did NOT want to return. I knew that if I came back I would endure terrible pain and grief and the place I was at was so wonderful. But my father's love pulled me back into this world and I spent months enduring a great deal of pain just as I'd kmown I would because it took the doctors quite a few surgeries to repair all the damage to my body. I am now 62 and I know that when I die, I will be going back to that place of great peace and at-oneness. I still look around me and try to see what is beautiful in this life, and I try to treat those around me with kindness and compassion. I find Buddhist philosophy very helpful to me in my quest to lead the best life I can. I'm far from being a saint and I go through very black periods of depression and I worry too much. So you see I don't have any perfect answers either, but I do feel there's more to our existance that most of us have ever imagined. In fact, I know it.
Why do you mean you know it ? how so

With regards to your story, it's very interesting but I still for whatever reason why accept death. What's worse is that we could die any day for all kinds of reason. For Some reason knowing my existence can be terminated like that ….shakes me to the core. I find it unfathomable for some reason.

I'm truly scared of this.

The silver lining is that lately I want to live better, and as long as possible if this all I will ever get.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2014, 09:47 PM
 
1,626 posts, read 3,882,686 times
Reputation: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by GJJG2012 View Post
I can relate. I'm 62 & haven't had much fun yet & time is running out. I have lifelong life-threatening illness (neurological disorders) & can never feel good. On pills for depression & anxiety, they don't help much. I discovered if I had high CBD cannabis ("marijuana"), my body got numb, & then my panic/anxiety & depression went away for a few hours. But high CBD cannabis hasn't been available around here for a dozen years & state will likely vote against it. Some people claim magnesium helped their panic attacks.

There could be an afterlife. What if this life is just a dream or the surface of Earth is Hell & we wake up to an excellent real life where things that kill us don't exist? I think perhaps the main thing that is killing us is the love of money, like political bribery that allowed corporations to get 85,000 toxins approved for our air, soil, food & water. If we can't get rid of all these toxins in our environment, then
we need the antidotes, things that help cleanse our innards. Today, 60% of Americans get cancer & 30% die from it. In the early 1930s, far fewer got cancer & the cure rate was over 90%.

There are still many cancer cures with up to 90%+ effectiveness, but were made illegal, kept secret, &/or never put on the market. Does getting into medical &/or political study & advice appeal to you? Do you have medical problems besides panic from fear of death?

As for improving your odds of living longer, some hobbies & type of job can be a factor. Organic food is likely safer than most, but too expensive if not wealthy. Almost everybody eats the pesticide, herbicide, insecticide treated food that might cause cancer & is already too expensive. Does your area have above or below average pollution?

A surgeon in South American cured almost everyone of stage 4 prostate cancer using 325 mg tablets of baking soda. You might want to study alternative medicine, most of it is cheap & rated by users with stories of what conditions became better. For some, formal studies exist.

Helping others helps ourselves & gives some a sense of purpose, but people with serious problems of their own may need to help themselves first. If you join a cause & work with many to change something bad, that can give a purpose where that change lasts long after you're gone.

I think possibly the main fears of death are I didn't have enough fun & I didn't do enough to help many others. Also, pain & disability before death if treatments fail. Best wishes.

I think I have OCD and some claustrophobia. Do you do any mental meditation to cope knowing you have a disease?

I could handle being diagnosed with some life threatening thing. My Grandma got cancer 1994, and was told she had 3 months to live then she died. I was only 13 but for some reason, I didn't get it until she died

My parents are both idiots basically, and not that great of people in many ways we're not that close as time went on.Strange family dynamic.

But for some reason I can't handle them dying. I had a great childhood better than most I was very happy.

I want to re live it again. But I can't. and I can't seem to come to terms with that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2014, 09:51 PM
 
1,626 posts, read 3,882,686 times
Reputation: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by UEHelp View Post
If you were not self-aware before you were born, then wouldn't it be the same after you die?

There are many stories of people coming back to life after dying for short periods of time. ER doctors and nurses will tell you that sometimes, they can feel a presence leaving after a person dies.

My question is whether the white light, sense of well-being along with sensing the presence of a soul departing is our own brains playing tricks on us or kicking into "death gear" to ease the transition or whether there's something more to it. I guess we'll all find out.

Why do people assume it's the same as before birth? the Universe has an origin, but it seems to go on and expand with no end.

Birth has to give a starting point, Could death be different?

I find time speeding up for some reason.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2014, 09:53 PM
 
1,626 posts, read 3,882,686 times
Reputation: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
T

2) Not knowing everything that will happen in the future is a Bad Thing.

3) A hypothetical future afterlife has a bearing on the quality of an actual present life.
That I do not agree with.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2014, 10:01 PM
 
1,626 posts, read 3,882,686 times
Reputation: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2e1m5a View Post
It's just something I feel. Have you ever had a strong sense of deja-vu or feeling like you've been some place before or met a person before? I sometimes feel like we are completing ourselves from past lives and preparing for future ones.

Now of course I'm not certain of any of this, but either way I will live this life to the fullest and try to make myself and those I surround myself with happy. There really is no other way to live.

As others have said, if this truly is our one and only life-shouldn't that give you more fire and motivation to live it, since you were granted such a limited gift?
No déjà Vu.

I wonder are we the lucky ones that are Born? as opposed to the millions that won't be. But eventually we will die, we will have no consciousness of our one life that we had. No memories nothing.So we won't even know that we lived, then are we really the lucky ones? if we all end up the same place as the people never born, Then what's the difference?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-13-2014, 10:04 PM
 
1,626 posts, read 3,882,686 times
Reputation: 381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme305 View Post
And clearly that's why people turn to religions -- because they can't accept the existential reality of life: that this is all there is. There's nothng beyond this. There is no purpose or meaning to life. We're born, we live, and we can die unexpectedly at any point of our lives. We're no different than other animals or plants in that respect.

People generally can't accept that, and therefore that's why they latch onto the belief that there's a "higher power" watching over them, and that there's an afterlife, etc.

If you think about it, believing in an afterlife is just plain stupid. You live to be 80 years old and then you die only to end up "living" again eternally in an afterlife? That's just ridiculous and stupid. It goes to show that people can't accept that it ends when it ends.
That could be, but I still wonder if have a creator. If we had no conscious before, but we still need a starting point… could death be different ? it is different
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Philosophy

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top