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Old 06-04-2014, 09:31 AM
 
Location: Keller, TX
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I'm referring to:
--classical Psychedelics such as LSD, LSA, Psilocybin, Ayuahuasca, DMT, as well as Mescaline
--analogue Tryptamines and Phenethylamines such as 2C-E, 25i-NBOMe and many others
--cannabinoids, in particular ingestibles, high-THC Sativa strains, synthetics taken under strict dosage and purity, and various Hash extracts (as opposed to a warm and fuzzy single indica joint)
--dissociatives such as Ketamine, Methoxetamine, and Dextromethorphan
--other unique substances such as Salvia Divinorum, MDMA, Muscimol, anti-mimetics and anti-cholinergics, Ibogaine, etc.

(obviously this is a wide range of substances with a huge range of effects -- feel free to focus on whatever you want to, draw distinctions between this or that, talk in a broad sense, etc.)

----------------------------
Leaving behind shallow, self-indulgent recreational usage / abuse, and leaving behind issues of legality for the moment, what do you think about responsible spiritual, entheogenic, therapeutic, or meaningful usage of hallucinogenic substances?

Can they potentially open the door to enlightenment? Are the experiences capable of being integrated and helping people cope or deal with issues in their lives, or discover truths about themselves or their relationships or the universe? Is there value in the dissociative or psychedelic experience when used under the right set and setting?

Or, is it all just mind games? Are they dangerous or at least delusion-inducing? Is there nothing to be gained that can be usefully brought back to the real world? Are they cheap "short-cuts" to meditative or enlightened states that ultimately fall flat as far as true wisdom and openness? Is every usage essentially recreational no matter how much some psychonaut claims it's a "spiritual journey?"

Or somewhere in between?

Thanks!
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:34 AM
 
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There is no need for any intoxicants, to attain enlightenment.
Any of those mentioned, are just that. Intoxicants. They are cheat wand to fake enlightenment, for those who are of not strong desire to attain one through hard work of self progression.
Also, they violate one of the most fundamental laws of humanity. Do not harm. As they harm temple of the true You, that being your body.
They, also, by altering your perception of reality, alter your mental capacities, harm your capacity to take of The Light of Intelligence. This being another fundamental law of humanity violation.
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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At best they are Chemical entertainment.

Same effects can be obtained by severe brain injuries.

Neither is a wise way to achieve peace or enlightenment.
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Old 06-04-2014, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Home
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I am fully against drug use and refuse to use them full stop. hallucinations are false perceptions or experiences. a true spiritual being seeking meaning and enlightenment will only find such things via true perceptions and experiences.
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:08 AM
 
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I think, given the right timing in a persons life and the right company and setting for the trip, LSD and psilocybin mushrooms are life changing.

To those who think they are chemical fallacy and nothing else, I have dropped into a state of being following non dual inquiry (while sober) that was very reminiscent of mushrooms. It was different obviously but the feeling was similar.

They don't do it permanently for you but they give you a experiential glimpse, they expand your consciousness, which can forever change a person. It can set them on a different path in life. I think it's best to take them the first time when you are 16-18 years old.

Last edited by tofur; 06-04-2014 at 11:16 AM..
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tofur View Post
I think, given the right timing in a persons life and the right company and setting for the trip, LSD and psilocybin mushrooms are life changing.
I agree it WILL be life changing.

However, because something is "Life Changing" that does not automatically equate to improvement or a life enhancement.


If a person requires chemical stimulation to find enlightenment, it may be they are too immature to even comprehend it.

In the words of Lenny Bruce

“If something about the human body disgusts you complain to the manufacturer.”
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Under the Redwoods
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Some on the list are ok and if used responsibly can be fun or beneficial, but others, like Ketamine, bad, very bad.
If searching for a different perspective, I feel it is best to start with the natural and be cautious of anything chemically derived.

For those that say such intoxicants are not enlightening, I beg to differ. Any experience, sober or not has something to teach us. What we take away from that experience is what is enlightening. It does not matter how we got there.
I also know that one can overcome fears easily having had a psychedelic experience. Sure, one could go through loads of counseling or treatment of some kind, which may or may not work, and can take a long time and is difficult.
With these drugs fears can be turned off like a light switch.

I am wondering, sort of, because I feel I already know the answer...how many who say these drug experiences are; fake, no good, harmful, has entertainment value only... Has ever done any of these drugs for a spiritual purpose.
It like an answer from someone who has been only bitten by a snake what it feels like to be bitten by a shark.

BTW- the phrase 'true perception' is an oxymoron.
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Old 06-04-2014, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Manayunk
513 posts, read 595,805 times
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I have done mushrooms and salvia. Mushrooms just made things seem a little brighter. Ie: smoking a cigerette I realized the orange glow of it was prominent. Salvia I did When I was down the Jersey shore with my friends (before the show...). All it did was make me laugh and feel glued to my seat for about five mins. It felt like when you go on a rollercoaster and go upside down or are on the Gravitron. I felt like gravity was pushing me into my seat and couldn't lift my limbs without focusing all my energy on it.

I'm not sure about other things, but I have heard Ibogaine can help with opiate addiction. However, big pharma companies don't want to bother with something that can treat addiction with a couple doses when they can keep people on methadone or suboxone for a lifetime. That's how most things are these days, unless someone Can make money off of it, no one wants to bother.
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:11 PM
 
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Personally, I think you'd have to be an idiot to use hallucinogens - too risky and totally artificial. I agree that a brain injury, meditation or even starvation can do the same. Why do you think the Buddist monks eat almost nothing? Starve yourself for long periods of time and you will have some marvelous mental experiences if it's enlightenment you seek.
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Old 06-04-2014, 12:25 PM
 
Location: Home
93 posts, read 75,235 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlKaMyst View Post
I am wondering, sort of, because I feel I already know the answer...how many who say these drug experiences are; fake, no good, harmful, has entertainment value only... Has ever done any of these drugs for a spiritual purpose.
It like an answer from someone who has been only bitten by a snake what it feels like to be bitten by a shark.

BTW- the phrase 'true perception' is an oxymoron.
Yep, i have never done drugs, which is why i was unable to share my opinion on the drugs themselves.

Now that i think about this more, i have actually gained spiritual development from my dreams, so i suppose that drugs could be used in the same way. maybe they could indeed help others out a little. it is just that i myself, refuse to use them.

Thanks for enlightening me
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