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You appear to be leaping about. You were speaking about some missing link between man and ape, and I was asking what you meant by this. And now you have jumped, instead of answering that question, to something related to philosophy and evolution.
I am afraid until you attempt to be at least partially clear in what it is you are actually highlighting, and what you mean, it is hard to give you a meaningful reply.
Be patient dude, I'm an old man I do what I can, what I wanted to say is everything you see and live is created, do not in according to the schemes known, there is a fact .. ..the universal consciousness is the only form of knowledge admitted by power groups that dominate the world, their knowledge is far away from ordinary people, whoever dares to have a new IPO-thesis different from the existing dogmas will suffer all the consequences.
The perception of reality is driven since the day we are born but do not coincide with reality.
Now the history of man is older more than you can imagine thousands of civilizations have occurred ..there is a common true we were created by a higher intelligence this fact exists in all the recent ancient civilizations, the power groups deny the evidence, the current technological level is higher than we think .. but we can not know.
There is no death but only a dimensional shift, what will remain will be your personal identity in a context of collective consciousness ..so different from the existing
At this point it would be better to go to the pub and have a beer.. the Franziskanen sounds good
I am not aware of having been impatient in either of my posts above. Quite the opposite in fact. I am starting to suspect English is not your first language? If not let me know and I can ensure I write a little clearer as I attempt to do for AA above too who has similar issues.
You now appear to have shifted into talking about some "universal consciousness" and are still not answering the question about the "Gap" you mentioned. It appears every time I reply to you, you reply with something that has nothing to do with what came before.
I am not sure what you mean by 1000s of civilisations either. What time scale are you talking on here and what civilizations? You also claim we were created by a higher intelligence, but I see no evidence from you supporting this fantastical claim.
I did not know it, I said I suspected it. You appear not to have replied to anything in my last post either. Can we return to this gap you mentioned. What is it, and what form does it take. And what or where are these civilizations you speak of.
And the ones you list as I said I would feel more comfortable calling "observations". They are merely our observations of how the universe appears to act. We call them "laws" in science, so be it, but I think as with many words in science.... the average lay man reads more meaning into those words than is intended.
But to repeat my actual point, so far no one (much less yourself) has shown any intentional agency behind these "laws". Which is all my point is, was, and has been. I am perfectly happy with speculation. I am a little more awry around areas where people forget that they are speculating and think the speculation true, likely or credible.
Fine. Science observes. This, since it never observed Natural Selection, then Natural Selection is shear speculation. Since it never observed the Big Bang, the Big Bang is shear speculation. What science has observed is that things change. Not very interesting but not very controversial either. Also, science has observed that life is habitual. A little more interesting but still no explanations. Not much but science only observes.
As for evidence of an intelligent agent, I would recommend looking in the mirror and observing what you see. Seems intelligent to me.
Fine. Science observes. This, since it never observed Natural Selection, then Natural Selection is shear speculation.
There are many things we have not observed but that does not make them speculation. Take murder inquiries for example. We convict many people of murder without anyone having observed the event? Why? Because direct observation is not required in every case. Nor is it required in every case in science. One can, and does, make inferences from other observations.
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Originally Posted by richrf
As for evidence of an intelligent agent, I would recommend looking in the mirror and observing what you see. Seems intelligent to me.
That just proved that I, an intelligent agent, exists. It says nothing about whether the process of evolution itself requires or has an intelligent agent driving it. Before you go TOO far down this road I recommend doing some deep reading on what is known as "The Composition Fallacy". As you are erring very much in that direction.
There are many things we have not observed but that does not make them speculation. Take murder inquiries for example. We convict many people of murder without anyone having observed the event? Why? Because direct observation is not required in every case. Nor is it required in every case in science. One can, and does, make inferences from other observations.
Jury deliberations and verdicts are hardly a science and are wrong all the time because they are full of speculation. Science is full of speculations. In fact, pretty much all of science is speculation, other than hard formulas like the Schrodinger equation. Everyone else is just speculating and covering up their speculations particularly in any Biological "science".
Quote:
That just proved that I, an intelligent agent, exists. It says nothing about whether the process of evolution itself requires or has an intelligent agent driving it. Before you go TOO far down this road I recommend doing some deep reading on what is known as "The Composition Fallacy". As you are erring very much in that direction.
You asked for evidence of an intelligent agent and I gave you evidence, by direct observation. As far as Evolution is concerned, that intelligent agent that you are looking at in the mirror most certainly participates in any changes that occur in this universe. Intelligence itself evolves as it creates and learns from its creations. Some call it growing wiser.
At least I am providing direct, observable evidence which is much, much more than any scientist is providing.
Jury deliberations and verdicts are hardly a science and are wrong all the time because they are full of speculation.
Good that I did not call them a science then is it not? I am aware of the differences between them, but I also aware of the analogous similarities between them which allows the analogy to work.
Suffice to say without the analogies that give you so much trouble: Direct observation of something is not the gold standard by which science works. We can conclude much by inference and deduction AS WELL AS direct observation. And huge swaths of science are based on this including both the conclusions you arbitrary cherry pick to accept, and the ones you equally arbitrarily cherry pick to reject.
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Originally Posted by richrf
You asked for evidence of an intelligent agent and I gave you evidence
No I did not ask for "evidence of an intelligent agent" I asked for "evidence of an intelligent agent behind the entire processes of evolution". Or behind the creation and / or subsequent maintenance of our universe if you like.
So if you willfully ignore half of what I say, you only end up replying to positions I never remotely espoused. And the art of discourse is much prettier when people answer what the other person actually said.
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