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In general, those who have had NDEs said the act of dying was far more painful than the NDE itself. During the NDE, they were free of any pain (and worries) they had.
Medical data suggests that they are fully mental experiences.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
Hard to believe they are ALL (every single one of millions of NDEs) hallucinations. As pointed out, not when a person suddenly learns of a family secret from a long-dead relative or when he/she can repeat exactly what happened in an ER room (or another room) while clinically dead.
Easy to believe it, the medical evidence supports it. You are welcome to believe that they are not, but it is belief, not fact.
As I said before, those examples are not evidence because they are not controlled situations. I have little trouble believing that those family secrets were something the individual knew already and either forgot or knew about in a context that made little sense. The reason I find this a plausible explanation is that I catch my own mind working this way now and then - that is not scientific either, but it is a reason for holding the belief I hold.
The few examples of "knowing what happened while dead" that I've heard related all depended on vague recollections of those alive at the time, or blurring the line between dead and no pulse during resuscitation attempts. The inconsistencies are typically obvious, though they do vary from one account to the next. I lost interest in accounts that require such credulity decades ago.
The few examples of "knowing what happened while dead" that I've heard related all depended on vague recollections of those alive at the time, or blurring the line between dead and no pulse during resuscitation attempts. The inconsistencies are typically obvious, though they do vary from one account to the next. I lost interest in accounts that require such credulity decades ago.
That is totally not true, I know because I have spent many hours reading NDE accounts. They don't all depend on vague recollections, most are supported by specific recollections.
The few I posted in this thread were decent examples. A girl went code blue and met up with her sister while "out of body", who was physically in another part of the hospital. They chatted and then the sister "died" and moved on. When the girl was resuscitated she claimed her sister had just died while she was out. It was confirmed.
No matter which way you slice it, that is weird. There are many cases similar, where a person flatlining comes back with information about what their family was doing and saying in a totally different part of the hospital. This is all spontaneous though, you can't plan for it (although I think if the AWARE study gets more money and goes on for long enough they will catch it).
Life is weird. I knew this guy who was in a HORRIBLE motorcycle accident about 25 years ago. He wound up partially pinned under rear wheels of a flatbed semi trailer. A woman who saw the accident happen (total stranger) stopped, got out of her minivan, and literally lifted the rear end of the trailer, wheels and all, enough for another good Samaritan to get him out from underneath it. Witnesses said she couldn't have weighed more than 110 pounds.
Anyway, the guy had extreme road rash all over his body, his legs were totally crushed and most of his ribs were shattered, among other things. Long story short he "died" for a while, had a NDE, and afterward wasn't the same guy at all. Before the accident, he was a raging alcoholic and womanizer. Afterward, he did a complete 180. His recovery was also remarkable, and within a year of the accident, you wouldn't have known that anything had ever happened to him. He died a few years ago from cancer, but in the grand scheme of things those last 20 years of his life were definitely his best.
Medical data suggests that they are fully mental experiences.
Easy to believe it, the medical evidence supports it. You are welcome to believe that they are not, but it is belief, not fact.
As I said before, those examples are not evidence because they are not controlled situations. I have little trouble believing that those family secrets were something the individual knew already and either forgot or knew about in a context that made little sense. The reason I find this a plausible explanation is that I catch my own mind working this way now and then - that is not scientific either, but it is a reason for holding the belief I hold.
The few examples of "knowing what happened while dead" that I've heard related all depended on vague recollections of those alive at the time, or blurring the line between dead and no pulse during resuscitation attempts. The inconsistencies are typically obvious, though they do vary from one account to the next. I lost interest in accounts that require such credulity decades ago.
How does "medical evidence" explain when those who have had NDEs can recite almost word for word what was going on in a hospital room while they were clinically dead? Or having contact with a dead relative who reveals a family secret in which the NDE person would never have known?
How does "medical evidence" explain when those who have had NDEs can recite almost word for word what was going on in a hospital room while they were clinically dead? Or having contact with a dead relative who reveals a family secret in which the NDE person would never have known?
Medical evidence supports that NDE's are mental, nothing more.
I find there to be other plausible explanations for those kinds of stories, they vary with the story. I am not an aficionado of such stories, however. Those plausible explanations are certainly no more provable than the explanation you prefer, which is fine. Just what we choose to believe.
Medical evidence supports that NDE's are mental, nothing more.
I find there to be other plausible explanations for those kinds of stories, they vary with the story. I am not an aficionado of such stories, however. Those plausible explanations are certainly no more provable than the explanation you prefer, which is fine. Just what we choose to believe.
"Mental" is a general term... it's much more complex when you research it.
So how does medical evidence explain the events I mentioned before?
"Mental" is a general term... it's much more complex when you research it.
Wholly in the mind is how I am using the word. That should be sufficiently non-general for this discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
So how does medical evidence explain the events I mentioned before?
I never claimed that it did. What I've claimed medical evidence shows has been explained repeatedly in this thread.
Such events as I've heard of all had other plausible, though equally speculative, explanations. I tend to believe those, you believe the one you please.
So why do you not answer my question? Hardly seems fair to me. Why do you discount the anecdotes that do not support your case? If you expect the anecdotes that do support your case to be allowed credibility, you must likewise allow credibility to those that do not.
So I ask you again, why put the word of someone who claims a view of an afterlife over the word of someone who recalls an hallucination?
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