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I think the word freedom is largely meaningless, and yet it is something that a lot of people take for granted that they have.
For all the 'freedoms' that we are told we enjoy, all of those freedoms are only limited to what society allows you.
You are not free to simply decide that the majority is wrong, that the land belongs to everyone equally and should be shared by all, for example. You can't just march into the forest and build yourself a house-- someone probably owns that forest, after all. Well, you can... but you will be met with a response from society or the landowner that will likely involve forcefully removing you.
Assuming you don't just inherit the money to escape and be self-sufficient, you will first be forced to contribute to a society whose principles you may or may not agree with before you can build a house on a piece of land that you have bought with the money you made from your job. Even then there is a question of taxes, building codes, etc. that must be followed. And this on top of the fact that you were probably raised in a society that has moulded you into its own product... it is difficult to claim you are free if you are relentlessly bombarded with a narrow range of perspectives and too distracted or too conditioned not to seek out alternatives.
Of course, you are still technically 'free' to do so, however you will need to first escape the distractions, the trivialities, the advertising and the relentless social pressures that reinforce it on a personal level. Many people dream of escaping a society they know on an intuitive level is not good for them, but at the same time they are more or at least equally concerned with whether or not the new Avengers movie will be any good.
It is no secret that our 'free' society is built through the enslavement of others. From the clothing factories in Bangladesh to the electronics factories in China and the cocoa plantations in Africa, most of what we consume is the product of someone else's enslavement or exploitation. If you have ethical objections to this, you are not free to escape this pattern without first participating in it. There may be solutions, but without money it is going to be exceedingly difficult to survive.
You are also not free to choose how your taxes are spent-- most of us are currently paying for wars that we are opposed to, and receiving very little in return, with the wealthy reaping the lion's share of benefits from these wars.
This is a consequence of private property and ownership... and the sick truth of the matter is that in a world of globalization and mass-exploitation, we're actually the lucky ones.
Last edited by Spatula City; 01-19-2015 at 07:59 AM..
I think the word freedom is largely meaningless, and yet it is something that a lot of people take for granted that they have.
For all the 'freedoms' that we are told we enjoy, all of those freedoms are only limited to what society allows you.
You are not free to simply decide that the majority is wrong, that the land belongs to everyone equally and should be shared by all, for example. You can't just march into the forest and build yourself a house-- someone probably owns that forest, after all. Well, you can... but you will be met with a response from society or the landowner that will likely involve forcefully removing you.
Assuming you don't just inherit the money to escape and be self-sufficient, you will first be forced to contribute to a society whose principles you may or may not agree with before you can build a house on a piece of land that you have bought with the money you made from your job. Even then there is a question of taxes, building codes, etc. that must be followed. And this on top of the fact that you were probably raised in a society that has moulded you into its own product... it is difficult to claim you are free if you are relentlessly bombarded with a narrow range of perspectives and too distracted or too conditioned not to seek out alternatives.
Of course, you are still technically 'free' to do so, however you will need to first escape the distractions, the trivialities, the advertising and the relentless social pressures that reinforce it on a personal level. Many people dream of escaping a society they know on an intuitive level is not good for them, but at the same time they are more or at least equally concerned with whether or not the new Avengers movie will be any good.
It is no secret that our 'free' society is built through the enslavement of others. From the clothing factories in Bangladesh to the electronics factories in China and the cocoa plantations in Africa, most of what we consume is the product of someone else's enslavement or exploitation. If you have ethical objections to this, you are not free to escape this pattern without first participating in it. There may be solutions, but without money it is going to be exceedingly difficult to survive.
You are also not free to choose how your taxes are spent-- most of us are currently paying for wars that we are opposed to, and receiving very little in return, with the wealthy reaping the lion's share of benefits from these wars.
This is a consequence of private property and ownership... and the sick truth of the matter is that in a world of globalization and mass-exploitation, we're actually the lucky ones.
Are you not free to choose how you handle your resources and appropriate your funds existentially? No one forced you to buy those goods you speak of. Our free society was built by the sacrifices and hard work of good Christian men. It was ruined by entitlement minded and greedy people.
I think the word freedom is largely meaningless, and yet it is something that a lot of people take for granted that they have.
For all the 'freedoms' that we are told we enjoy, all of those freedoms are only limited to what society allows you.
You are not free to simply decide that the majority is wrong, that the land belongs to everyone equally and should be shared by all, for example. You can't just march into the forest and build yourself a house-- someone probably owns that forest, after all. Well, you can... but you will be met with a response from society or the landowner that will likely involve forcefully removing you.
Assuming you don't just inherit the money to escape and be self-sufficient, you will first be forced to contribute to a society whose principles you may or may not agree with before you can build a house on a piece of land that you have bought with the money you made from your job. Even then there is a question of taxes, building codes, etc. that must be followed. And this on top of the fact that you were probably raised in a society that has moulded you into its own product... it is difficult to claim you are free if you are relentlessly bombarded with a narrow range of perspectives and too distracted or too conditioned not to seek out alternatives.
Of course, you are still technically 'free' to do so, however you will need to first escape the distractions, the trivialities, the advertising and the relentless social pressures that reinforce it on a personal level. Many people dream of escaping a society they know on an intuitive level is not good for them, but at the same time they are more or at least equally concerned with whether or not the new Avengers movie will be any good.
It is no secret that our 'free' society is built through the enslavement of others. From the clothing factories in Bangladesh to the electronics factories in China and the cocoa plantations in Africa, most of what we consume is the product of someone else's enslavement or exploitation. If you have ethical objections to this, you are not free to escape this pattern without first participating in it. There may be solutions, but without money it is going to be exceedingly difficult to survive.
You are also not free to choose how your taxes are spent-- most of us are currently paying for wars that we are opposed to, and receiving very little in return, with the wealthy reaping the lion's share of benefits from these wars.
This is a consequence of private property and ownership... and the sick truth of the matter is that in a world of globalization and mass-exploitation, we're actually the lucky ones.
Quote:
Freedom is first and foremost an engagement with Responsibilities, for those who choose not to be responsible it is an illusion, for those who are and continue to be responsible it is a reality. Therefore, Freedom is first and foremost a Responsibility
People use words without understanding the depth of what composes their summation.
In a society of responsibility, there are laws, governance, regulations, ordinances and labors, one must be willing to work within those frameworks with a sense of responsibility; then such ones will have no problem with the graces of freedoms
Everything which exist, functions "WITHIN A FRAMEWORK OF RESPONSIBILITIES" Sadly that applies to the enslaved as well as the slaver -
Quote:
Some throw it around and claim "infringement upon their freedoms" but such is often done (by ones) with an aim at selfishness of vain indulgence, even bigoted disregards which has no concern for the rights of others, some throw it around when they have no regard for the system of governance, and deny the responsibility to work within regulatory systems guidelines, and ignore ordinances, and even too those who want, but want not to invest themselves in the labors necessary to achieve their wants and aims.
Last edited by Chance and Change; 01-19-2015 at 08:57 AM..
People who work for corporations now are just like the slaves of yesteryear, the only difference is they have a choice and money. If you want to change something stop complaining and make some sacrifices. Then you will understand and have a right to complain all you want. They are lost in their own world.
Are you not free to choose how you handle your resources and appropriate your funds existentially? No one forced you to buy those goods you speak of. Our free society was built by the sacrifices and hard work of good Christian men. It was ruined by entitlement minded and greedy people.
My point is that you're not free to reject this society and create your own. If I said that society was evil and contributed to the exploitation of others and the perversion of human nature, there is no way to simply remove myself from it. There is no SPACE to claim as my own free independent society because all SPACE is owned by private interests or the government, and if I did claim space as my own I would be forcibly removed. I can buy space, but that would mean participating in the system beforehand, which in turn is a betrayal of my interests. I'm only speaking hypothetically so no need to label me a lazy good-for- nothing commie quite yet.
And for the record, I don't mean living a life of indulgence on the 'backs of others'. It's like the second someone says they don't think private property is fair you start throwing out accusations of welfare fraud or something. This needs to stop if you ever want real communication to take place.
I mean escaping it completely, being self-sufficient Thoreau-style. I mean living a very basic, very sparse lifestyle where I would work much much harder than most of the people in society for what you would probably consider smaller gains because I consider it to be morally and ethically superior to participating in mainstream society.
Everything which exist, functions "WITHIN A FRAMEWORK OF RESPONSIBILITIES" Sadly that applies to the enslaved as well as the slaver -
How is this a response to what I'm saying? I'm not advocating hedonism or some sort of lazy life where I don't do any work and everything is given to me.
I would still be responsible for myself and the people I love. I'm not talking about society providing for me personally, I'm talking about society freeing up space and letting people who would rather live under different conditions do so-- completely removed from the laws, taxes, and protocols of mainstream society. Obviously they would still have to provide for their own basic needs and wouldn't depend on society to do so... depending on society to provide for you in exchange for your time is one of the reasons people are so much weaker and slower than they should be.
As long as space is monopolized by private or even so-called public interests, people will conform as the easiest, best means of survival. This is how people are controlled-- not by Orwellian means, but by Huxleyian-- they are given so much of what they love that it ruins them with sensory overload, making them stupid, weak and selfish... instead of banning books, they're distracting people so much that they don't want to read. They can't see alternatives because the mainstream is so pervasive and enormous. That's freedom?
Of course, the degree of conformity can be lessened, but ultimately it still exists. And even if I were to completely escape and consider taxes and ownershi a penalty to prevent my arrest, chances are mainstream society would still intrude on my lifestyle via pollution, climate change, war, taxes, overpopulation, disease, etc.
Last edited by Spatula City; 01-19-2015 at 10:58 AM..
How is this a response to what I'm saying? I'm not advocating hedonism or some sort of lazy life where I don't do any work and everything is given to me.
I would still be responsible for myself and the people I love. I'm not talking about society providing for me personally, I'm talking about society freeing up space and letting people who would rather live under different conditions do so-- completely removed from the laws, taxes, and protocols of mainstream society. Obviously they would still have to provide for their own basic needs and wouldn't depend on society to do so... depending on society to provide for you in exchange for your time is one of the reasons people are so much weaker and slower than they should be.
As long as space is monopolized by private or even so-called public interests, people will conform as the easiest, best means of survival. This is how people are controlled-- not by Orwellian means, but by Huxleyian-- they are given so much of what they love that it ruins them with sensory overload, making them stupid, weak and selfish... instead of banning books, they're distracting people so much that they don't want to read. They can't see alternatives because the mainstream is so pervasive and enormous. That's freedom?
Of course, the degree of conformity can be lessened, but ultimately it still exists. And even if I were to completely escape and consider taxes and ownershi a penalty to prevent my arrest, chances are mainstream society would still intrude on my lifestyle via pollution, climate change, war, taxes, overpopulation, disease, etc.
There is a show about Alaskan Wilderness, where a group of people are living in the manner you speak as close as they can to the conditions and standards you are addressing. It looks brutally hard, but they seem to like it.
That covers too big a territory but from the responses here, it would appear that this is narrowing down to the point where it would be better suited to the P&C board.
Have fun, good bye.
My point is that you're not free to reject this society and create your own. If I said that society was evil and contributed to the exploitation of others and the perversion of human nature, there is no way to simply remove myself from it. There is no SPACE to claim as my own free independent society because all SPACE is owned by private interests or the government, and if I did claim space as my own I would be forcibly removed. I can buy space, but that would mean participating in the system beforehand, which in turn is a betrayal of my interests. I'm only speaking hypothetically so no need to label me a lazy good-for- nothing commie quite yet.
And for the record, I don't mean living a life of indulgence on the 'backs of others'. It's like the second someone says they don't think private property is fair you start throwing out accusations of welfare fraud or something. This needs to stop if you ever want real communication to take place.
I mean escaping it completely, being self-sufficient Thoreau-style. I mean living a very basic, very sparse lifestyle where I would work much much harder than most of the people in society for what you would probably consider smaller gains because I consider it to be morally and ethically superior to participating in mainstream society.
I think people are free to make their own way. But they are scared to do so. Non conformity is not an easy endeavor or for the faint of heart. One has to wonder if had not Thoreau come from the family he did, whether he would have had the courage to be who he was.
Chris McCandless understood, and was a modern day Thoreau of sorts. And by the way, I am anything but right wing, There is no label to describe me but a responsible non conformist truth seeker. I am merely trying to be true to myself, human nature and history. What others think matters little. The world is becoming a a big mis-interpretation because of lack of insight and experience.
Last edited by Know Nonsense; 01-20-2015 at 06:27 AM..
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