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Old 07-28-2015, 08:28 AM
 
Location: In a chartreuse microbus
3,853 posts, read 5,286,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Why the scientific process. I can't think of anything in bible that proves anything about our reality. No mention of gravity the earth orbiting the sun or how we work at a cellular level. It is a series of assertions written by mystics and it is a terrible tool for determining truth. In fact it has been an obstacle to truth for thousands of years as the believers have attempted to slow scientific progress.
It is difficult for me to not use my point of reference for reality, which is the "dreaded" bible. Genesis 1:1 deals with space, time, and matter.

I'm curious as to where you think this originated. I think that such specifics as gravity and DNA are not mentioned in detail is because those are not things that we needed to be concerned with in order to survive. They were already taken care of.
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:11 AM
 
Location: In a chartreuse microbus
3,853 posts, read 5,286,970 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minougirl View Post
Of course my idea is unrealistic and utopian
My point was that religion is unnecessary for morality and while it does good in many ways, such as building community, it is built on brainwashing and drives to divide, not unite people.
I like the concept of getting together to discuss morality and how to deal with trials and tribulations on a weekly basis, i.e. church, but this would be better done in a non-religious, non-spiritual framework.

...
Think of how far society has come in terms of civil rights over the past century.

...
You do realize that the man credited with starting the civil rights movement was a Baptist minister?

Throughout the era of the New Deal, money and advice was piled onto the problems of the poor and disadvantaged. It wasn't until a man with a vision for equality under God changed the lives of millions for the better. Come to think of it, he also was martyred like the "mystics" who wrote the bible.

Last edited by sirron; 07-28-2015 at 09:39 AM..
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Old 07-28-2015, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Chicago area
14,266 posts, read 7,860,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirron View Post
It is difficult for me to not use my point of reference for reality, which is the "dreaded" bible. Genesis 1:1 deals with space, time, and matter.

I'm curious as to where you think this originated. I think that such specifics as gravity and DNA are not mentioned in detail is because those are not things that we needed to be concerned with in order to survive. They were already taken care of.


I think DNA is the answer to the utopia presented in this thread. We need to learn how to breed out the evil by finding a way to isolate the evil gene and replace it with a normal one. We are in our infancy as far as gene therapy is concerned. If we unlock that key we are the new god. We could have all beautiful people with blond hair and blue eyes and none of them homosexual. How boring.

Okay you religious people go ahead and roll your eyes and label me a heathen, but here is some food for thought. Last week at work I talked to a man that was literally taken off of the ventilator and left for dead. We call them terminal weans. Well the man started breathing after being clinically dead for a few minutes. He told me that god saved him. I asked him if he saw him and he said no. He told me that he wasn't even aware that he had been on the planet for weeks. If the staff hadn't intervened and put him back on life support he would have been gone. Yet another case was a man we met roller skating that had over dosed and was clinically dead as well. I asked him the same question. He also said no, he wasn't aware of anything. Yet he insisted that god saved him. Well I guess the medical staff had nothing to do with it.

Utopia at this stage of our development is impossible. Especially with the one size fits all mentality that can't respect another way of thinking. I know lets outlaw religion all together, maybe then we can all get along if we all think alike? I doubt that will work. Okay lets have one religion for the world that we all have to believe in. Nope, not the answer either. Man is too complicated a being for that one size fits all mentality. How do we achieve utopia? Maybe by learning to accept, respect, and live and let live without harsh judgement, discrimination, and persecution. Maybe utopia is just a state of mind that has a different definition for all of us?
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Old 07-28-2015, 11:22 AM
 
Location: In a chartreuse microbus
3,853 posts, read 5,286,970 times
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I think if we start messing with DNA manipulation, it should be for purposes of curing diseases, not attitudes.
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Old 07-28-2015, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minougirl View Post
Without borders, people would be free to live where they wanted. This would dissolve ethnic differences, with race becoming increasingly indistinguishable.
History does not bear this out. A hundred-plus years ago, the European colonial powers redrew the boundaries of Africa and Eastern Europe to enclose a variety of different ethnic groups within the same nations. The result was not peace and harmony, but brutal inter-ethnic civil wars, once the heavy hand of the colonial powers no longer was there to enforce the peace.

If you really do want peace in the world, you're better off respecting ethnic differences and allowing the different ethnic groups to each have countries that they can call their own. This wouldn't end all warfare, of course, but it would cut down on its frequency.

As for your views on religion, we will have to agree to disagree on that one. I will say this, though: all religions are not created equal. And if you cannot see how certain ones are causing a whole lot more trouble in the world than other ones, you're just not paying attention.
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Old 07-28-2015, 12:17 PM
 
9,196 posts, read 4,236,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minougirl View Post
Humanity on the whole is not that far ahead of barbarianism. Maybe someday in the distant future, there will be no borders, no religions dividing and retarding people, and people will exercise universal morality simply for the sake of the common good, rather than scoring points with "god" or reward in the afterlife. Peaceful, comfortable living distills to a handful of things; play your part to contribute to common resources, don't hurt others, don't steal, don't control or take advantage of others for your own gain, respect the availability of resources, respect common living space by not littering. My, what a lovely world that would be.
Based on your criteria, it will always remain a dream. For example there is no way to insure every person would be willing to play their part to contribute to common resources.
Frankly it sounds like socialist sophomoric weak sauce.

Many a country has tried those Utopian ideals via communism/socialism, and it has turned out to be disastrous for that society. Even if it can work on some level with small societies strongly bound by race, culture, etc., it would never work on a large scale, much less a global one.

So your John Lennon pie in the sky liberal dream will have to remain just that.

`
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:06 PM
 
9,196 posts, read 4,236,750 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirron View Post
I think if we start messing with DNA manipulation, it should be for purposes of curing diseases, not attitudes.
That poster was so absurd I didn't even bother to take the time to address their post.
They somehow think an "evil gene" exists. In reality babies are not born with evil in their hearts. If raised properly they will become decent human beings. Granted they will be fraught with some of human beings selfish nature, but most evil is learned. The idea that it is genetic would certainly never be accepted by the leftists, which that poster sounds like one of them.
Can you imagine if they determined that blacks were more genetically prone to violence, or had less intelligence?
The leftist PC crowd would shout down any study before it even got started. Heck even if it was done in secret and proved beyond the shadow of a doubt, the researches would be scalped as racists.

Many have never seen a movie called Gattaca, but they should as it relates to this subject of genetic engineering;


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZppWok6SX88

A truly frightening look into our probable future, all brought to you by the progressive liberals of today.

`
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:20 PM
 
Location: Howard County, Maryland
5,613 posts, read 3,605,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vector1 View Post
They somehow think an "evil gene" exists.
If you watched The Simpsons, you would know that, according to Dr. Hibbert, "Only one in two million people has what we call the 'evil gene.' Hitler had it, Walt Disney had it, and . . . Freddy Quimby has it."
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Northern Maine
9,767 posts, read 14,896,650 times
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sirron points out:
"You do realize that the man credited with starting the civil rights movement was a Baptist minister?"

The civil rights movement was created by our Declaration of Independence. Our Constitution strictly limits the powers of our federal government. Unfortunately, nascent tyrants have been nibbling away at out Constitution for years. There is not much time left to regain the liberties we have lost.

As to interstellar travel, the cost would be huge. America no longer has the manufacturing base, skilled work force and leisure time to support such a thing. Yes, leisure time. Citizens will not support a space program again until we have a society based on the Constitution that allowed us to prosper as individuals. There are 93,000,000 Americans under retirement age not working in our country. They cannot afford a space program. Neither can those of us who do work.
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Old 07-28-2015, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,324 posts, read 1,787,341 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirron View Post
It is difficult for me to not use my point of reference for reality, which is the "dreaded" bible. Genesis 1:1 deals with space, time, and matter.

I'm curious as to where you think this originated. I think that such specifics as gravity and DNA are not mentioned in detail is because those are not things that we needed to be concerned with in order to survive. They were already taken care of.
Genesis has nothing to do at all with reality. It is essentially a parable if you will. My point is that using the bible as a reference point is foolish. The bible is unchangeable and static scientific progress on the other hand is constantly being tweaked and improved upon. I suppose you also ignore the parts of the bible that endorse slavery or rape the bible is hardly a moral book. It was written by a bunch of bronze age savages.
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