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Old 12-11-2015, 10:34 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,268 posts, read 19,252,920 times
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This may sound odd and naive, but why are there bad people? ^^
Do they know they are bad and decide to be bad regardless?
Don't they feel good when they do good and hence others like them?
Would they like to be good people if they knew how to change?
Do they secretly envy good people?

Or is there something good and purposeful about the existence of bad people? Some people say things like, there would be no light without darkness, no sweet without sour, and so on. But I am not so sure that is correct. In other words, in this context, is a society of only good people thinkable?
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Old 12-11-2015, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,663 posts, read 74,111,513 times
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Good and bad are relative. People fall on a scale of relativity within what people are. Some are tall, some are smart, some are good dancers, some are good cooks, and some aren't. Some are better than average, some are worse than average. Some, relatively speaking are bad, which to you means worse than the position you occupy (or perceive yourself) on the scale of good to bad. Some are better than you, so why are you bad?
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Old 12-11-2015, 12:20 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,268 posts, read 19,252,920 times
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I am not a fan of that modern trend to excuse things by comparing them to others and pretending everything is relative.

People's quality shows in the way they behave towards others. If they do more good things than bad things and/or don't do more bad things than good things, then they are good people. Sure, some may be even better than others, yet they are all good.

I mean, was Staling a good person just because Hitler was worse? Certainly not, they were both bad people.

My mother for instance simply is a good person, no matter who you compare her to. And, in all modesty, so am I. I am not saying that because I am arrogant or whatever, but simply because of my behavior, which I am very aware of because I lead a very conscious life. I align my behavior with society (which basically means with its laws and rules), not the other way round.
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Old 12-11-2015, 12:29 PM
 
Location: The Heart of Dixie
1,357 posts, read 1,100,671 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
I am not a fan of that modern trend to excuse things by comparing them to others and pretending everything is relative.

People's quality shows in the way they behave towards others. If they do more good things than bad things and/or don't do more bad things than good things, then they are good people. Sure, some may be even better than others, yet they are all good.

I mean, was Staling a good person just because Hitler was worse? Certainly not, they were both bad people.

My mother for instance simply is a good person, no matter who you compare her to. And, in all modesty, so am I. I am not saying that because I am arrogant or whatever, but simply because of my behavior, which I am very aware of because I lead a very conscious life. I align my behavior with society (which basically means with its laws and rules), not the other way round.
I agree completely with your entire post

There are certain things that are bad and there's no other way to spin them. They aren't less bad because there are worse things/people out there. "Oh, this murderer isn't bad because he killed a full grown man whereas this other one is really bad because he killed a child." Please.
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Old 12-11-2015, 01:20 PM
 
12,890 posts, read 15,387,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
This may sound odd and naive, but why are there bad people? ^^
Do they know they are bad and decide to be bad regardless?
Don't they feel good when they do good and hence others like them?
Would they like to be good people if they knew how to change?
Do they secretly envy good people?

Or is there something good and purposeful about the existence of bad people? Some people say things like, there would be no light without darkness, no sweet without sour, and so on. But I am not so sure that is correct. In other words, in this context, is a society of only good people thinkable?
bad people are either born that way (sociopath) or created to be that way...very abusive childhood.
And yes, I believe they know they are bad, but are so regardless.
Not everyone likes what people do that's good...that's very subjective.
What some do, and consider good....I might not.
No, "bad" people don't care enough to want to change.
They secretly scorn good people...they pity them...maybe even see it as a weakness.
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 3,666,840 times
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Bad is indeed relative. Everyone sees the world differently.

It's Trump bad? Go on the forums to find you answers. He is everything and anything depending upon who you talk to.

Now, someone on this thread may wish to claim a higher knowledge of good or bad but that only creates disagreement it doesn't get one any closer to what is good or bad.

Nothing wrong with disagreements though. It is the way we learn from each other
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:43 AM
 
95 posts, read 220,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
Bad is indeed relative. Everyone sees the world differently.

It's Trump bad? Go on the forums to find you answers. He is everything and anything depending upon who you talk to.

Now, someone on this thread may wish to claim a higher knowledge of good or bad but that only creates disagreement it doesn't get one any closer to what is good or bad.

Nothing wrong with disagreements though. It is the way we learn from each other
Do you think some things are really, objectively bad no matter how various people see the world or what people think they know?

If not, and bad is just relative as you say, what can we really "learn from each other"? What progress are we making if we have no standard to approach?

What I see you saying is that our individual apprehension of moral truths can vary across the board...but does that mean there isn't actually any truth about whether something is good or bad?
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:46 AM
 
Location: Chicago
5,559 posts, read 3,666,840 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StandBack-DoorsClosing View Post
Do you think some things are really, objectively bad no matter how various people see the world or what people think they know?

If not, and bad is just relative as you say, what can we really "learn from each other"? What progress are we making if we have no standard to approach?

What I see you saying is that our individual apprehension of moral truths can vary across the board...but does that mean there isn't actually any truth about whether something is good or bad?
We learn what we learn. Everyone is different.

Someone may believe there is an objective morality of good and bad and they may use the Koran or Bible as the source. But it will only lead to disagreements.

Objectivity, as with everything else, is relative to the individual's own mind.
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Old 12-14-2015, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Texas
43,478 posts, read 52,509,570 times
Reputation: 70581
No bad person actually thinks that they're bad. Whether its through denial, rationalization, or the point of view that they have created in their mind because of their circumstances and the way they were raised.

I think my neighbor is a bad person bc he violates the city water restrictions and cheated on his wife. He probably thinks the watering rules are stupid (rationalization) and his status makes it so he should have whatever chick he wants whenever (POV).

I guarantee you that he does not think he is a bad person.
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:01 AM
 
95 posts, read 220,486 times
Reputation: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by richrf View Post
We learn what we learn. Everyone is different.

Someone may believe there is an objective morality of good and bad and they may use the Koran or Bible as the source. But it will only lead to disagreements.

Objectivity, as with everything else, is relative to the individual's own mind.
It seems like you're confusing how we might come to discover moral facts (learning from other people, divine revelation, etc) with whether or not there is such a thing as a moral fact in the first place.

Objective in this "fact-of-the-matter" sense means independent of what anybody thinks about it. You'd probably agree that it's an objective fact whether I have five fingers or six. Whatever I think in my own mind can't change that. So the question is, are there moral facts like that? Facts that are true even if everybody in the world thought otherwise? Is it objectively bad to inflict pain on a child for fun? Is tolerance of people different from yourself objectively good?
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