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Old 02-04-2016, 03:12 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinkytoes View Post
That is BS. Some people are meek and humble by nature. Some people are prone to want to force others to violently submit, to some extent also by nature. To claim that everyone is this way is a big insult to those of us (puts on halo) who are peace-loving.
Perhaps you missed what the OP stated. IF not, your confidence this is BS is actually due to your ignorance of human nature, i.e. your own nature.


I stated " ALL Human Beings are Potentially Beastly and Evil " not "All Human Being are Beastly and Evil."


"Potentially" mean humans has the inherent neural circuit to be angry, rage, fears, fight, kill, injure and commit all sort of primal evils [secular].
The instincts to fight, kill, and the emotions of anger and rage are basic and are thus embedded in the human DNA. These primary circuits have been evolving over millions of years and humans inherited them from our direct line ancestors.


The progress of human nature is developed by inhibiting and suppressing these impulse and not by eliminating and destroying these fundamental circuits.
These inhibitors developed later and thus are very much weaker and they can be loosen, atrophized or by-passed.
This is why those who are exposed to severe stresses and mental pressures can snap and go on a killing rampage.
Even if some one is normally timid and meek s/he can commit a crime of passion when a strong surge of jealousy activate the primal impulses and bypass or overcome the inhibitors to trigger the inherent impulses to kill and injure.


Suppose you have a meek personality. Scientists can easily use EBS to trigger beastly impulses of rage and killing in you by directly triggering the specific neural circuit in an instance.
EBS could elicit the ritualistic, motor responses of sham rage in cats by stimulation of the anterior hypothalamus, as well as more complex emotional and behavioral components of "true rage" in both experimental animals by stimulation of the lateral hypothalamus, and in human subjects by stimulating various deep areas of the brain.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electr...in_stimulation




The above experiment is very objective because the rage circuit is located in the same part of the brain of every human.


Because a person who is meek/timid all his/her life can turned to be a violent beastly person in the next instance indicate the beastly impulses are inherent in humans. They are not "manufactured" within one's life time like "skills."


I suggest you read and research more widely to enlighten yourself on this issue.
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Old 02-23-2016, 11:03 AM
 
40 posts, read 19,182 times
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Quote:
The above experiment is very objective because the rage circuit is located in the same part of the brain of every human.
How are you able to go beyond showing that neuronal circuitry has a correlation to mental states to proving that they cause bad behavior? At what point do firing neurons morph into the experiences we call rage or fear in consciousness and how does this metamorphosis take place?
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Old 02-23-2016, 12:06 PM
 
3,293 posts, read 1,876,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post

The least evil would cover those like lying, theft, petty crimes and immorality
The most evil would be genocide, mass rapes, mass beheadings, mass tortures, serial killers, child sex crimes, infanticide, very cruel acts and the likes.
The average evil are those rated in between least and most evil.
How on earth have you arrived at the conclusion that lying is an inherently evil act?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Obviously "is" cannot be "ought" at the same time and sense. This is a popular philosophical controversy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is%E2%80%93ought_problem




However we can overcome the is-ought problem if we put the "is" in dynamic complementarity with "ought" within a Critical Philosophical Framework like the Yin-Yang Complementarity.





The "Yin" cannot be "Yang" but they will work effectively and realistically to produce results when in a dance of dynamic complementarity.


For example we can derive absolute moral principles [say 'Yin'] but we do not impose these moral principles onto the practical world ['Yang'].
These absolute moral principles are not be enforceable but merely to act as guides in the practical world within an interactive and interdependent critical philosophical open system.
Why didn't David Hume just think of that damn yin yang! Ha -- this is laughable. It is like someone Googled "philosophy words" on the internet and then threw them into a post in random order. What the hell is a "dynamic compementarity [sic]" or a "Critical Philosophical Framework"? If we can derive absolute moral principles, why do those principles not apply to the practical world, if in fact they are absolute?

Regarding your OP: I think this is a question that is probably more of an empirical question than a philosophical question. If you are merely claiming that there are certain circumstances in which people could be savages, that is probably true. That doesn't seem to be particularly controversial. I don't know that reasoning about evolution or DNA helps us get to that conclusion, however.
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Old 02-24-2016, 01:00 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,569,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
How on earth have you arrived at the conclusion that lying is an inherently evil act?

Why didn't David Hume just think of that damn yin yang! Ha -- this is laughable. It is like someone Googled "philosophy words" on the internet and then threw them into a post in random order. What the hell is a "dynamic compementarity [sic]" or a "Critical Philosophical Framework"? If we can derive absolute moral principles, why do those principles not apply to the practical world, if in fact they are absolute?
Note one of my main interest and forte is Philosophy, i.e. Eastern and Western.


It is unfortunate you are ignorant of the underlying philosophical issues I relied upon to arrive at my assertions.
Before you disagree or mock others, you should at least understand [not necessary agree with] the details of the philosophical issues on hand.


Here is one demonstration of your ignorance in these matters.
Note in the Principle of Pure Geometry we deal with the Qualities of a Perfect Triangle.
Can you ever produce an absolute perfect triangle in the empirical or practical world?

Quote:
Regarding your OP: I think this is a question that is probably more of an empirical question than a philosophical question. If you are merely claiming that there are certain circumstances in which people could be savages, that is probably true. That doesn't seem to be particularly controversial. I don't know that reasoning about evolution or DNA helps us get to that conclusion, however.
Note the critical word in the OP, i.e. "POTENTIAL."


1. DNA wise, via evolution, all humans has the potential to be evil.
2. Some, estimated 20%*, are evil prone [has the tendency] to commit evil.
3. Certain circumstances will trigger these evil prone to commit evil.


* 20% is not critical to me, it could be 10% or even 1%. What is critical is there is at least 1% of humans who are inclined to commit violence when triggered by certain circumstances [stimuli, catalysts]


It is not meant to be controversial.
My point is to establish the facts of 1-3.


In the real world and real problem, there is the fact that Islam in part is the stimuli/catalyst that trigger a certain % [at least 1% and in reality up to 20%] of evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence.
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Old 02-24-2016, 11:20 AM
 
3,293 posts, read 1,876,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note one of my main interest and forte is Philosophy, i.e. Eastern and Western.


It is unfortunate you are ignorant of the underlying philosophical issues I relied upon to arrive at my assertions.
Before you disagree or mock others, you should at least understand [not necessary agree with] the details of the philosophical issues on hand.


Here is one demonstration of your ignorance in these matters.
Note in the Principle of Pure Geometry we deal with the Qualities of a Perfect Triangle.
Can you ever produce an absolute perfect triangle in the empirical or practical world?
This is the philosophy board. I think everyone's forte here is philosophy. I have a master's degree in it. I'm not ignorant of these issues. Most philosophers in the world today would reject the idea that lying is inherently an evil act. It is easy to think of scenarios in which we are not only permitted to lie, but it is actually morally obligatory to lie.

As for the triangle, I have no idea if we can actually create a perfect triangle in the real world; I have no idea how that is a relevant question, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
Note the critical word in the OP, i.e. "POTENTIAL."


1. DNA wise, via evolution, all humans has the potential to be evil.
Again, this is an empirical question. It is a scientific question, not a philosophical question.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
2. Some, estimated 20%*, are evil prone [has the tendency] to commit evil.
As I've already pointed out to you, you've pulled this number out of your ass. It is based on your incorrect understanding of how bell curves work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
3. Certain circumstances will trigger these evil prone to commit evil.
Yes, of course. I didn't disagree with that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Continuum View Post
* 20% is not critical to me, it could be 10% or even 1%. What is critical is there is at least 1% of humans who are inclined to commit violence when triggered by certain circumstances [stimuli, catalysts]


It is not meant to be controversial.
My point is to establish the facts of 1-3.


In the real world and real problem, there is the fact that Islam in part is the stimuli/catalyst that trigger a certain % [at least 1% and in reality up to 20%] of evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence.
It is obviously true that many humans could be triggered to do evil things by certain stimuli. That seems to be a point so obvious that it doesn't need to be said. What is not so obvious is that Islam in general (rather than a particular extreme sect) acts as such a trigger or that this potential for evil is a genetic trait conferred to us by evolution. You haven't offered anything to back up those two points. While I agree with your general point -- many humans are capable of evil if put in the right circumstances -- I think you have made some unwarranted leaps on the other points.
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Old 02-24-2016, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Georgia
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While we all have a free will, there are only two influences in this world- God and satan. If we are not following God, then we are following evil. I know many discount that satan even exists, but that is exactly what he wants. He is the master of deception. Many also discount the existence of God, and that too is what satan wants.
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Old 02-24-2016, 12:09 PM
 
3,293 posts, read 1,876,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85 View Post
While we all have a free will, there are only two influences in this world- God and satan. If we are not following God, then we are following evil. I know many discount that satan even exists, but that is exactly what he wants. He is the master of deception. Many also discount the existence of God, and that too is what satan wants.
Considering that there are zero good arguments for the existence of a personal god, it's easy to see why people have doubts.
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Old 02-24-2016, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Georgia
3,817 posts, read 1,402,143 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
Considering that there are zero good arguments for the existence of a personal god, it's easy to see why people have doubts.
I'll agree that it's easy to see why people have doubts. My question is who is influencing them to doubt? I had doubts for the first 38 years of my life. To be honest, I never gave too much thought to God and where I stood with Him. As I look back now, it's amazing that I and so many others never give much thought to the most important issue in life!
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Old 02-24-2016, 01:38 PM
 
3,293 posts, read 1,876,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryan85 View Post
I'll agree that it's easy to see why people have doubts. My question is who is influencing them to doubt? I had doubts for the first 38 years of my life. To be honest, I never gave too much thought to God and where I stood with Him. As I look back now, it's amazing that I and so many others never give much thought to the most important issue in life!
I wouldn't assume that there is a "who" influencing them. Who influences me to believe in gravity? Who influences me to believe we are going to have a short winter? While I may have gathered certain pieces of information from other people, what I believe is ultimately a reflection of the amalgamation of various data points I've collected along with perhaps some of my unique tendencies to interpret information in a certain way. For many people, including many people who have thought about this stuff quite a lot, the evidence in favor of a personal god just doesn't add up. I'm in that group. For twenty years, I would have said I was certain I believed in god. Looking back, I hadn't honestly explored the arguments against his existence with any objective fervor. Had I done so, I would have abandoned that nonsense long ago.
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Old 02-25-2016, 12:17 AM
 
Location: Not-a-Theist
3,440 posts, read 1,569,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenstein's Ghost View Post
This is the philosophy board. I think everyone's forte here is philosophy. I have a master's degree in it. I'm not ignorant of these issues. Most philosophers in the world today would reject the idea that lying is inherently an evil act. It is easy to think of scenarios in which we are not only permitted to lie, but it is actually morally obligatory to lie.
It is commendable you have a Master Degree in Philosophy.
However the point is academic philosophy is very limited to one's specialized field. I am not sure whether you are an all rounder in the fields of Philosophy.
I guess you could be either be inclined or loyal to either the Analytical or Continental school of philosophy??? As for Wittgenstein are you of the Earlier or Later Wittgenstein. Tell me if I am wrong on the above.
As for me I am very inclined towards 'Kantian Philosophy Proper'* with a background understanding of all major philosophies [Eastern and Western].
* Kantian Philosophy has various school of thought, including an Analytical View, e.g. Strawson's]


Quote:
As for the triangle, I have no idea if we can actually create a perfect triangle in the real world; I have no idea how that is a relevant question, though.
It is impossible to create a perfect triangle in the empirical world. What are basis of the three points of the triangle we can rely on to measure it?
From one atom to another? it's nucleus, quarks,?
Basically and philosophically there is no absolute certainty [later-Wittgenstein].


My point is,
as the qualities of a perfect [absolute] triangle is a ground for applied geometry,
so the absolute moral principles can be used a ground for applied ethics.
This is why how absolute moral principles come into the picture.


We can have an absolute moral maxim, i.e. lying is absolutely not permitted but it is used a guide for practical applied ethics in its varying empirical conditions.
This is the same as using the absolute qualities of a perfect triangle as a guide for applied geometry it is various applied empirical conditions.


Quote:
It is obviously true that many humans could be triggered to do evil things by certain stimuli. That seems to be a point so obvious that it doesn't need to be said.
What is not so obvious is that Islam in general (rather than a particular extreme sect) acts as such a trigger or that this potential for evil is a genetic trait conferred to us by evolution. You haven't offered anything to back up those two points. While I agree with your general point -- many humans are capable of evil if put in the right circumstances -- I think you have made some unwarranted leaps on the other points.
Note Islam itself has both good and evil elements within the 6,236 verses of the Quran.
There are two truths [good and evil] within many of the verses in the Quran. Note Wittgenstein's Duck-Rabbit example.
I have made a detail analysis of the Quran and at the minimal, more than 55% of the 6,236 verses in the Quran contain low-degree-evil elements.
These evil laden verses are catalysts that trigger the naturally evil tendencies in the 20% of evil prone Muslims to commit terrible evils and violence which is glaringly evil.


It is the same as the evil laden elements in books, movies, computer games and various medias that influence the vulnerable 20% [conservative] of evil prone humans to commit terrible evils and violence. This cause and effect potential is well recognized by governments, authorities, groups, parents, etc. This is why there are warning, censoring, preventive measures taken to ensure the vulnerable ones are not exposed to the evil and violent elements in the above sources.


But the most critical problem is many governments, authorities, groups, parents, people and you [likely] do not read the Quran objectively to understand the existence of those evil laden elements in the Quran. [Note I have spent 12 months reading and researching the Quran on a full time basis.]
They and you [likely] assumed because Islam is a religion, and since religions are supposed to promote good, therefore Islam must be overall good.


The criticalness of the root causes of terrible and violence from the 20% of evil prone Muslims is the existence of the evil laden verses not only influences and inspired but they subliminally compelled them to commit the terrible evils and violence.
The compelling factor is all Muslims must obey and comply with all expectations of Allah in the Quran otherwise they will go the hell.
This prompt the zealous 20% of evil prone [note a potential pool of 300 million] to obey and comply what is natural to their inclinations, i.e. act on the evil laden elements in the Quran and thus commit evil and violence.

Last edited by Continuum; 02-25-2016 at 12:26 AM..
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