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Old 05-21-2016, 03:44 PM
 
3,312 posts, read 1,872,122 times
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Generally true but then really what you're talking about is infatuation or superficial crushes. That's not really love although infatuation can be a part of love.

I was in love once with a guy from my high school. I'll admit at first he repulsed me but then he kissed me one day and I felt the spark. He was always the outcast in high school. It did end in heartbreak but for many people it doesn't always. My grandparents were in love with each other and were married 50 years. She was very much in love with him and wanted to be with him in heaven as she was passing. Some people are fine living life alone but generally being human romantic love is one of the most important things. Many people need someone to share your life with to always be there for you and give you that excitement/pleasure. There's nothing wrong with that if you pick the right person.


The movie "The Perfect Man" describes it best: love is friendship on fire. Yes romantic love does start with physical attraction but it's just one facet. It is a deeper kind of friendship. That's why there are many people who say their spouse is their best friend. Other friends tend to come and go in one's life. Sex is pointless at first glance but if someone has sex with someone they really love it never is. I think it is one of those things that look strange disgusting and pointless but if you play your cards right, it is one of the most beautiful things. It's another way of connecting. I don't even to have sex with someone I love to know that. The merging of two souls...what could be more profound?

Also just because a woman is attracted to a wealthy/high in social status doesn't mean that's what she likes about him. I've been attracted to my fair share of famous guys and I can tell you it's nothing to do with their status. The only reason I hadn't developed attraction before that is because I didn't know of their existence. It's about their character that I have studied and much of the time they're not the Brad Pitts/Justin Timberlakes of the industry so not generally the most popular. Yeah most of the time that kind of attraction is pointless but some celebrities have ended up with "regular" people so you never know. Nothing is impossible.



Quote:
Originally Posted by JustCuriouss View Post
the two are interrelated. Can a man fall in romantic love with women he is not sexually attracted to? Can a women fall in love she doesn't think is socially dominant ( be that aspect of social dominance intelligence, wealth, physical strength, work ethic, etc?) Without the sexual attraction, a romantic relationship would just be reduced to platonic friendship or family love.

"It was all about passion and feelings" .. ha! passionate about what? Gazing into each other eyes is perhaps the hallmark sign of passion, and yet one must be sexually attracted to those eyes (find them physically attractive), no? Feelings? What kind of feelings... most likely these feelings combine horniess along with rush of chemicals that compel one to obsess about their lovers they find physically attractive so that they could mate and rear children, which would require coitus.

Maybe it takes a poetic soul to understand but eyes are the least superficial feature. The saying goes "the eyes are the window to your soul" and for guys at least (I say this because I'm not sure about my eyes) they tell a lot about them when I look into them.
I may be the oddball but for me physical attraction is hardly superficial. With guys I tend to see their personality right through their face..now the hair part is superficial but that's about it. I don't care too much about a man's body.


Finally you also mentioned about how looks do fade. Features like hair and muscularity do but faces in general don't change too much. They might get wrinkles but they are still the same face (unless you get plastic surgery)



Quote:
Originally Posted by JustCuriouss View Post
you say humans are given choices to follow their base desires or to follow a more spiritual righteous path.... but romantic love is completely based on base desires (it is completely an instinct).

How is it not the fault of romance, if the basis of romance is superficial (do you not read or watch how in love poems and chickflicks it is a woman's physical beauty that a man most wants? Even in the best rated chick flick "The Notebook", Gosling was attracted to McAdams because of her physical beauty, so much as to risk his life hanging on a ferris wheel just at the mere sight of her physical beauty. He was not one bit repulsed by the ruthless, cruel, and immature way she humiliated and endangered him (by pulling down his pants while he was hanging off the ferris wheel)! Nope, that she was beautiful is enough for him to overlook that! Reality reflects this: when talking or asked about what they want in their wives, girlfriends, etc. they want a Victoria's secret model.... winning nobel prizes or starting charities aren't gonna pop boners in the male gender any time soon (unless we genetically engineer the next generation).

True we don't choose to fall in love but in some cases we CAN choose to stay in love. If the spark goes out and you are dedicated to that person you do your best to make it work.


You did watch all of that movie right? He obviously stayed with her when they became old. The first glance he was attracted to her beauty but he connected with her as a person after getting to know her.

She also became attracted to him despite his poor status. She could have stayed with the rich guy but she chose him instead.



In conclusion, yes there are times it hurts but friends hurt too. Life hurts and can often be pointless. We could say anything is pointless and traumatic. I mean for example why drive? You could get hurt in an accident. Why not just walk? But for some people it is the more important option.
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Old 06-04-2016, 09:02 AM
 
Location: The Commonwealth of Virginia
650 posts, read 367,240 times
Reputation: 962
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustCuriouss View Post
....Romantic love does exist, but it is, like i have said, not really " love", since it is always selfish, fleeting, and superficial.
Nonsense. Where do I start? This statement alone highlights that you know not of what you speak.

Romantic love is "...is a deep emotional, sexual and spiritual recognition and regard for the value of another person..." The romantic love I feel for my wife is demonstrated (in one of a multitude of ways) in that I care more about her welfare than I do my own. I'd take a bullet for her. Truly. Because I love her with my entire being.

And she loves me. I know this. As only the truly loved can know. Do I have high social status? Nope. Do I have a lot of money? Nope. But she is with me.

Will the sexual spark fade? Perhaps. That does seem to happen to some. But not so far...because we work at it. And if it happens to us? The romantic love will persist. How do I know that? Because the woman with whom I fell in love has the most beautiful HEART I've ever known in a person. I fell in love with her heart, not her boobs. (But I guess you'll have to take my word for that.)

So, if we ever stop having sex, because we're too old, will that transform our years of romantic love into simple platonic love? Of course not. As many have already pointed out, romantic love is more than sex.

When you paint with the broad strokes you've used, you paint yourself as a simple person.


--
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Old 06-06-2016, 07:03 AM
 
297 posts, read 207,917 times
Reputation: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill790 View Post
Nonsense. Where do I start? This statement alone highlights that you know not of what you speak.

Romantic love is "...is a deep emotional, sexual and spiritual recognition and regard for the value of another person..." The romantic love I feel for my wife is demonstrated (in one of a multitude of ways) in that I care more about her welfare than I do my own. I'd take a bullet for her. Truly. Because I love her with my entire being.

And she loves me. I know this. As only the truly loved can know. Do I have high social status? Nope. Do I have a lot of money? Nope. But she is with me.

Will the sexual spark fade? Perhaps. That does seem to happen to some. But not so far...because we work at it. And if it happens to us? The romantic love will persist. How do I know that? Because the woman with whom I fell in love has the most beautiful HEART I've ever known in a person. I fell in love with her heart, not her boobs. (But I guess you'll have to take my word for that.)

So, if we ever stop having sex, because we're too old, will that transform our years of romantic love into simple platonic love? Of course not. As many have already pointed out, romantic love is more than sex.

When you paint with the broad strokes you've used, you paint yourself as a simple person.


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young man, your wife has yet to age. What you say doesn't contradict at all what i have said. Come tell me this when your wife wears many wrinkles and the many more beautiful, fertile, young would have caught your eye, mind, and heart. Tell me then if you could resist young women and instead prefer to romance your infertile and wrinkly wife. Until then, young man, you should enjoy the beauty your wife possesses, for her beauty is dependent on her youth, which would inevitably be stolen by time. Continue to live the lie you have committed oh so much into living, for it will be soon that you can lie to yourself no more, for men love with their eyes. And dare you tell me that it was not your wife's physical beauty that caught your heart? Dare you tell me that had she been plain, you would love her just as much? Dare you tell me that had she been less beautiful, she would be your wife today?
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Old 06-06-2016, 07:29 AM
 
297 posts, read 207,917 times
Reputation: 290

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0Ow-YjDCC0
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Old 06-06-2016, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Whittier
3,007 posts, read 5,091,590 times
Reputation: 3036
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustCuriouss View Post

Why not say everything is BS, because that's what this nihilistic/reductionist/nonsensical drivel is espousing.

There are so many things that are wrong about that video, and I care so little about refuting every point; I don't want to waste anymore of my time.

-----

Even though you might not see it not everything can be reduced to science and genes and behavior.

Just as we are able to be guided by our behavior and genes, we also have this thing called consciousness.

We are able to have the ability to choose. You can argue against free will when you are unbiased.

People make choices to love. People make choices to be selfless or altruistic "against our nature."

People can and do choose who they love.

People get older and age, and guess what? Many of those older couples are still together because they LOVE each other.

Sometimes people grow apart, sometimes people cheat...but that's life.

Beauty isn't dependent on youth; that is ridiculous. People find beauty in all sorts of things in life in all shapes and sizes.

It's sad that you still don't get it. And I truly feel sorry for you not being able to understand the beauty in love.
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Old 06-06-2016, 02:11 PM
 
297 posts, read 207,917 times
Reputation: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by harhar View Post
Why not say everything is BS, because that's what this nihilistic/reductionist/nonsensical drivel is espousing.

There are so many things that are wrong about that video, and I care so little about refuting every point; I don't want to waste anymore of my time.

-----

Even though you might not see it not everything can be reduced to science and genes and behavior.

Just as we are able to be guided by our behavior and genes, we also have this thing called consciousness.

We are able to have the ability to choose. You can argue against free will when you are unbiased.

People make choices to love. People make choices to be selfless or altruistic "against our nature."

People can and do choose who they love.

People get older and age, and guess what? Many of those older couples are still together because they LOVE each other.

Sometimes people grow apart, sometimes people cheat...but that's life.

Beauty isn't dependent on youth; that is ridiculous. People find beauty in all sorts of things in life in all shapes and sizes.

It's sad that you still don't get it. And I truly feel sorry for you not being able to understand the beauty in love.
feminine beauty is dependent on youth. It is ridiculous to say otherwise. Why are all super models, in all cultures, 20 years old, instead of 30 , 40 , 50 year olds? a woman's fertility quickly drops after her med twenties, so she is, in the eyes of potential mates, most beautiful from teens to mid twenties.
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Old 06-06-2016, 02:16 PM
 
297 posts, read 207,917 times
Reputation: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by harhar View Post
Why not say everything is BS, because that's what this nihilistic/reductionist/nonsensical drivel is espousing.

There are so many things that are wrong about that video, and I care so little about refuting every point; I don't want to waste anymore of my time.

-----

Even though you might not see it not everything can be reduced to science and genes and behavior.

Just as we are able to be guided by our behavior and genes, we also have this thing called consciousness.

We are able to have the ability to choose. You can argue against free will when you are unbiased.

People make choices to love. People make choices to be selfless or altruistic "against our nature."

People can and do choose who they love.

People get older and age, and guess what? Many of those older couples are still together because they LOVE each other.

Sometimes people grow apart, sometimes people cheat...but that's life.

Beauty isn't dependent on youth; that is ridiculous. People find beauty in all sorts of things in life in all shapes and sizes.

It's sad that you still don't get it. And I truly feel sorry for you not being able to understand the beauty in love.
oh yeah, you say there are "so many things wrong with that video". Just point out one. Just one. come on
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Old 06-06-2016, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Whittier
3,007 posts, read 5,091,590 times
Reputation: 3036
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustCuriouss View Post
oh yeah, you say there are "so many things wrong with that video". Just point out one. Just one. come on
The last two minutes were an incoherent ramble of building a society on rationality only.

He ignores the many forms of love and/or dismisses those forms outright.

He ignores the fact that humans have rationality, and can control our thoughts of love but assumes that objectively love is only one thing and immutable? To recognize, but at the same time ignore love? In his eyes love is subjective...yet evolutionary?

We can absolutely love an adopted son or daughter as much as our blood relation.

People do have altruistic traits based on a philosophy of rational and moral care.

Believe it or not evolutionary psychology isn't the end all or be all of truth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critic...ary_psychology

If he's saying that society should only lead by what's rational then what does that even mean?

People's justification on rationality could mean 1000 different things. At least a leadership based on compassion would notice injustice in the world and try to help others. I know which one I would pick.

---------

Men are attracted to young women, sure. But they are also attracted to older women as well. Gay men are attracted to...men. If there was an average looking younger woman compared to an above average or stellar looking famous older (more experienced) woman, I would guess that the men would go with the older woman.

Also men and women have types as well. Some like blondes more than others, some like brunettes, and some don't care.

Some couples decide to have children and some don't. Some adopt because they cannot have children and they love those children just as they would if they were genetically linked.

----------

Its one thing to accept that humans procreate and have gestures in the form of romantic love to help that process.

It's another leap to suggest that we should only be rational beings, not have emotion and not have care and or love in our lives.
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Old 06-06-2016, 03:48 PM
 
297 posts, read 207,917 times
Reputation: 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by harhar View Post
The last two minutes were an incoherent ramble of building a society on rationality only.


If he's saying that society should only lead by what's rational then what does that even mean?

People's justification on rationality could mean 1000 different things. At least a leadership based on compassion would notice injustice in the world and try to help others. I know which one I would pick.

---------
to the best of my understanding, he is from the antinatalist community on youtube, and is suggesting that people don't procreate, which would be the choice people would make if they decide on reason alone.

compassion and logic are not mutually exclusive. In fact, logic is required for proper compassion, while compassion doesn't require emotion. Antinatalism, for example, is the most compassionate and logical philosophy.
Quote:
Men are attracted to young women, sure. But they are also attracted to older women as well. Gay men are attracted to...men. If there was an average looking younger woman compared to an above average or stellar looking famous older (more experienced) woman, I would guess that the men would go with the older woman.
you're not holding all things constant. That same more stellar looking woman has had to be a complete bombshell in her youth to look better than even plain younger women when wrinkly. If you asked those same men if they would prefer that older woman in her current state or when she was younger, i'll bet you they would say they prefer her in her youth.
Quote:
Also men and women have types as well. Some like blondes more than others, some like brunettes, and some don't care.

Some couples decide to have children and some don't. Some adopt because they cannot have children and they love those children just as they would if they were genetically linked.
hair color has little to do with fertility. In fact studies were done to find that men preferred which ever hair color was most scarce in the environment. The fact that most people adopt only when they cannot have their own means it is not a choice. Most fertile people are not willing to adopt, and when they do, they often love their biological children more.
----------
Quote:
Its one thing to accept that humans procreate and have gestures in the form of romantic love to help that process.

It's another leap to suggest that we should only be rational beings, not have emotion and not have care and or love in our lives.
he is not suggesting that you to be only a rational being, but that you make decisions that affect other people based on reason instead your DNA's complusions

Last edited by JustCuriouss; 06-06-2016 at 04:12 PM..
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Old 06-07-2016, 08:08 AM
 
Location: The Commonwealth of Virginia
650 posts, read 367,240 times
Reputation: 962
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustCuriouss View Post
young man, your wife has yet to age. What you say doesn't contradict at all what i have said. Come tell me this when your wife wears many wrinkles and the many more beautiful, fertile, young would have caught your eye, mind, and heart.
Young man? I'm 52. Is that young? My wife is close to my age. We've been married for 21 years, we have no kids, and she has wrinkles.

Quote:
Tell me then if you could resist young women and instead prefer to romance your infertile and wrinkly wife.
I could and I have (resisted).


Quote:
Continue to live the lie you have committed oh so much into living, for it will be soon that you can lie to yourself no more, for men love with their eyes.
If that happens, I'll be sure to let you know.


Quote:
And dare you tell me that it was not your wife's physical beauty that caught your heart? Dare you tell me that had she been plain, you would love her just as much? Dare you tell me that had she been less beautiful, she would be your wife today?
I can hardly be objective about her physical beauty. She's no beauty. She's also the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. As I said before, I fell in love with her heart. And I couldn't imagine my life without her. Ever.


--
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