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Old 01-18-2018, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY
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This site needs a "blank stare" smiley.
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Old 01-22-2018, 10:23 AM
 
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might have already posted in this old zombie thread but too lazy to search

NO...only the extremely wealthy would be able to afford passage
sure they gotta bring the worker bees to do all the things the rich don't want to do...but most would perish

so no...and I would probably participate in sabotage if given the chance

to "keep humanity going" is just a feel good bullcrap phrase...it really means so the rich can buy a few more years
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RageX View Post
If we cannot reach the extraterrestrial bodies in question, whatever or wherever they may be, in a span of less than 10 years each way, it's meaningless and, a waste of resources. [Only by your logic]

At that, 10 years is a pretty tight limit. The nearest star, Proxima Centauri, takes LIGHT, 4.5 years to reach. At speeds even 50% of light we would encounter the following problems (and many more);

Any collision with even a grain of rice at that speed would yield nuke-level damage.
Regular gases cause massive, vaporizing friction.
Regular background radiation becomes more fatal the faster it goes through you, or more accurately, you going through it.
You cannot go that speed the whole time; safe acceleration and deceleration times would add years at each end.
While we can get small amounts of matter stored and propelled quickly over long distances, we cannot yet do so for humans and all the ...stuff... we need.

One of the only ways it could work would be to place humans in a sort-of reptilian statsis where very minimal resources are used. However, we have no data, or reliable way to acquire data on how to store an inanimate human for a year or two, and reveive them with their sentience intact and withoit their muscles atrophied to near death.

Even that assumes the ship doesn't pass through a Gamma Ray Burst, Neutron Star magnetic field, or just an ordinary depletion of onboard resources.
CELESTIAL OCEAN
Clavius: Environment - radiation primer

The best materials to shield against beta particles have lots of hydrogen atoms in them. Hydrogen atoms are light, and so absorb the particles without giving off x-rays. Plain old water works very well. In fact, 4 inches (10 centimeters) of water will block almost all background beta particles.

Water is an ideal shield for cosmic radiation. No doubt that the outermost shell of any ginormous habitat will be an "ocean." [There goes all those space windows!] This will do double duty as a protection from hypervelocity micrometeors. Any puncture will be sealed by the icicle formed by the leaking water... assuming that the vessel is in the shadow of a protective EM shield.
. . .
The ocean shell can also serve as the differential suspension for balancing mass under spin.
Archimedes principle ramped up to the max.

Ten years? NOPE.
The more viable strategy of interstellar colonization via autonomous habitats is to design for a flight time of 40+ years. (Approximately 46 years to reach Alpha Centauri.)

With the advent of laser propulsion (solar powered) "packet fleets" of colonies are accelerated to 1/10 light speed and travel to nearby star systems, where they are decelerated by lasers previously installed by "Queen Ants" sent centuries before.

Laser Drive accelerating at One Tenth Gee, will reach a velocity of 0.1c in 353.82 days.
As each vessel reaches its goal speed, the lasers can be retasked to accelerate another. This results in a series of colonies, separated by roughly one year. Provides a system of data relays back to the home system. Provides redundancy. Efficient use of a limited resource - finite laser stations.

After a suitable time interval, those extra solar colonies launch expeditions to neighboring star systems.
In 600 to 800 million years, humans may span the Milky Way galaxy. After that, who knows?
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Old 01-24-2018, 05:04 AM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,347 posts, read 2,974,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucky2balive View Post
might have already posted in this old zombie thread but too lazy to search

NO...only the extremely wealthy would be able to afford passage
sure they gotta bring the worker bees to do all the things the rich don't want to do...but most would perish

so no...and I would probably participate in sabotage if given the chance

to "keep humanity going" is just a feel good bullcrap phrase...it really means so the rich can buy a few more years
Not really, I don't think. Plenty of people have powerful dreams about just continuing the species. Now, people could argue about if that would even be a positive thing, but the dreams are there. I think that's almost the whole reason why people talk about colonizing Mars, not to save anyone if something disastrous happens to Earth, but to continue the species. The way I see it, anything that turns Earth into something less habitable than Mars probably wouldn't leave many survivors to emigrate to any Martian colonies anyway.

Also, I'm not saying sabotage would be the appropriate route even if the ships were exclusively filled with ninety year old billionaires, but whoever designs the ships would be absolutely insane to let you know the ships are filled with ninety year old billionaires even if they are, so for all you know, you could be sabotaging the survival of humanity's best.

But that's part of the reason I would think it would be best to tell people as soon as possible beforehand, so that most people can just stop having children and most of humanity can just go extinct on its own naturally...assuming there'd be some way to get most people to believe that, which I'm not sure would be possible.
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Old 01-25-2018, 02:47 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
Not really, I don't think. Plenty of people have powerful dreams about just continuing the species. Now, people could argue about if that would even be a positive thing, but the dreams are there. I think that's almost the whole reason why people talk about colonizing Mars, not to save anyone if something disastrous happens to Earth, but to continue the species.
Some environmentalists object to dreams of Martian colonization on the basis that it encourages people to think of Mars as a backup plan of sorts for Earth, encouraging people not to deal with climate change and other pressing issues. In any case, Mars isn't much of a backup plan; it's a long way away, has only 1% of the atmospheric pressure of Earth even if it were breathable, and terraforming it is beyond our current technology.

I tend to support it for different reasons though. The same reason I've always supported space exploration. It gives humanity a new frontier with the resulting benefits to innovation and imagination and vision; and it can be done by simply having the minor amount of will to expend perhaps 1% of the US GDP on the enterprise. That leaves 99% for other things. The problem is we don't even do that, at least not with any sort of consistency, and keep spinning our wheels accordingly. Honestly -- a tenth of the $$ we waste every year would support a very impressive program of human exploration and colonization of the solar system and robotic exploration beyond it.

I'm not sure targeting Mars makes all that much sense though. I would rather see us target asteroid mining, which would enable us to build large space habitats and move people into earth orbit, lunar orbit, and the various LaGrange points, then perhaps to other solar orbits. These habitats would be designed for long-term, permanent occupation, would have artificial gravity similar to Earth's, etc. These could be gradually moved around to places like Mars orbit and more readily support building up a presence down on the surface. They could even be spread throughout the solar system and beyond, and be a stepping stone to the stars.

But this requires vision and most humans don't see beyond the end of their zotz (or the next quarterly corporate report) so there's little danger of this actually happening unless and until it becomes practical and attractive to exploit space resources in some way. Which is why I tend to think of asteroid mining -- not just the kind I have in mind to spare us the expense of boosting metals into space to build things, not just making fuel in space, but mining precious / scarce metals like platinum and dropping them back down to Earth.
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Old 01-25-2018, 09:14 PM
 
Location: Pacific 🌉 N, 🌄W
11,037 posts, read 4,817,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
I tend to support it for different reasons though. The same reason I've always supported space exploration. It gives humanity a new frontier with the resulting benefits to innovation and imagination and vision; and it can be done by simply having the minor amount of will to expend perhaps 1% of the US GDP on the enterprise. That leaves 99% for other things. The problem is we don't even do that, at least not with any sort of consistency, and keep spinning our wheels accordingly. Honestly -- a tenth of the $$ we waste every year would support a very impressive program of human exploration and colonization of the solar system and robotic exploration beyond it.
The most Spot on! post that I've read today.
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Old 02-02-2018, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Independent Republic of Ballard
6,628 posts, read 5,046,598 times
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The cost of transporting even a very select subset of humanity (the whole of humanity would be an impossibility) to another solar system would be monumental. Why would the 99.9999% of humanity to be left behind ever pay for that? In paying for space exploration, we do so largely in expectation of discoveries made, knowledge gained, or, potentially, minerals mined, because we see it as being beneficial.

By the time we face extinction, it will be too late. Until we face extinction, however, nothing will be done. If we are to explore space, it will have to be done for reasons other than "saving humanity".
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Old 02-07-2018, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Ohio
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CrazyDonkey said:
Why would the 99.9999% of humanity to be left behind ever pay for that?

Ordinary people would not realize they were paying for it. The costs would be (is) buried in the military budget and very few of the higher ups would know of the plan's existence. I am sure there are many contingency plans already made that we (ordinary people) know nothing about.

There are "safe" places in places across the US and in other countries already in place for high ranking military and government peeps. Heck the Scientologists and Mormons have disaster plans, of course the US military has them too. Elon Tusk just had another successful rocket launch, his kids or grandkids have space reserved on his rocketship if the government doesn't take it.



The real question is: would you want to be around post-apocalypse? The lucky ones may the those who never knew what hit them.
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Old 02-07-2018, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
245 posts, read 113,355 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey View Post
The cost of transporting even a very select subset of humanity (the whole of humanity would be an impossibility) to another solar system would be monumental. Why would the 99.9999% of humanity to be left behind ever pay for that? In paying for space exploration, we do so largely in expectation of discoveries made, knowledge gained, or, potentially, minerals mined, because we see it as being beneficial.

By the time we face extinction, it will be too late. Until we face extinction, however, nothing will be done. If we are to explore space, it will have to be done for reasons other than "saving humanity".
If humanity was truly going to get wiped out, that means every single debt incurred by humankind would go away too - so the cost of such a project would be totally irrelevant. We could spend 100's of trillions of dollars building space arks for millions of people (silly to stick with just one - let's build a 100, or a 1000, and make them miles and miles across) Money would no barrier whatsoever - we'd have unlimited ability to build what we want. There's no debt to ever repay - it'd be gone forever....lol.

No taxes to have to pay, no worries about debt or future economic calamity - yeah, I think most people would get on board with it, even if they have no chance of leaving Earth.
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Boston
3,732 posts, read 1,469,827 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radical_Thinker View Post
If humanity was truly going to get wiped out, that means every single debt incurred by humankind would go away too - so the cost of such a project would be totally irrelevant. We could spend 100's of trillions of dollars building space arks for millions of people (silly to stick with just one - let's build a 100, or a 1000, and make them miles and miles across) Money would no barrier whatsoever - we'd have unlimited ability to build what we want. There's no debt to ever repay - it'd be gone forever....lol.

No taxes to have to pay, no worries about debt or future economic calamity - yeah, I think most people would get on board with it, even if they have no chance of leaving Earth.
I'm willing to pay to eject liberals into space.
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