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So, why shouldn't humans be the organisms to determine what is best for nonhuman organisms, when we've thought about it a lot?
Who has thought a lot about it? You?
First tell me why you think it's our duty to impose our will upon any sentient creature?
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Originally Posted by Clintone
but you seem to see wild animals as better at knowing what's best for them than human beings are capable of knowing. I don't know why.
This is beyond obtuse. Where does a person start with a statement such as this? You are a very dangerous mind on this planet.
We are animals and we evolved along with animals who have been here millions of years before we showed up. They made it just fine without us and today they make it just fine in nature without humans interfering in their lives. If they did not know what's best for them we would have zero animals on earth. There are far more animals on earth than humans...and they have no issues surviving and passing on their genes.
Do you even remotely get it? I have no hope in teaching you anything...you are too far gone.
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Originally Posted by Clintone
That's why I'd consider painlessly euthanizing predators and sterilizing many herbivores.
This is why humans especially humans like you have no business imposing your will on any other sentient creature...especially since you think it's your right for some BIZARRE reason. This is insanity what you are posting.
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Originally Posted by Clintone
I've taken an oceanography course. I've taken environmental biology course in college. I've taken a college course called on American environmental history. I've long had an interest in animals and have read several books on insects and space and biology in my spare time as a kid. I love science. It's not my field, but I think I have a decent understanding of the basics of it.
Well then there is something horribly wrong with you to have the barbaric and bizarre thoughts that you do. You apparently did not learn anything in those courses.
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Originally Posted by Clintone
I have educated myself about a great many things. You, however, talk about nature nonhuman life as if it exists in some kind of perfect, utopian state.
You don't appear to be educated at all. The things you say are simply odd and not normal in anyway shape or form. Animals that live in the wild are doing so as evolution paved the way for them to do. There is nothing harming them or their ecosystems anymore than what humans are experiencing. It's called natural selection. Good ole mother nature. However humans have laid another layer of harm upon animals. Get a clue! Now take a good look around the globe and tell me how much better most humans are doing as opposed to animals who live in nature. You apparently don't know much about the world either.
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Originally Posted by Clintone
Nobody should listen to you.
Your posts scream "I don't know what I am talking about" "I have no understanding about the Animal Kingdom, Or about Ecosystems". "I have dangerous thoughts in thinking we have the right to control the Animal Kingdom and euthanize them".
I can assure you that no one is listening to you. You should do yourself a favor and just stop this nonsense.
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Originally Posted by Clintone
I was born in 1985
Yep your a Millennial alright. I can spot them a mile away.
Better yet apply that euthanasia plan on yourself that you think is such a grand idea...you know the one that you want seen done to other creatures, which are no doubt much more intelligent than you have shown yourself to be.
At least I don't live in a fantasy land where the crocodiles and the gazelles are happy, merry friends who sing Kumbaya by candlelight together.
I have an idea of what an anaerobe is. It's an organism that does not require oxygen to live. I'm unsure about the more specific definition, and I don't see it as particularly important...but oxygen was, according to my link, harmful to many of them. The link describes it has having been poisonous to many of them.
Of course oxygen will kill an anaerobe...but that does not mean it's a poison. Too much water will kill a human...do you consider water a poison. That's how obtuse you sound.
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Originally Posted by Clintone
Anyway, my point with that post I made about oxygen having been a poison (whether it was or not) was that this happy, utopian equilibrium you seem to fantasize about?
Stop putting words in my mouth. I don't view anything here on Earth as Utopia. Animals are just a product of their environment and evolution. Some live better than others. But for sure humans have created the most harm to Animals.
You don't need to post this as I am well aware of what "survival of the fittest" actually means. You think humans are not living with the same brutal conditions? You really need to get out and understand the world that you live in. I am surprised that someone your age thinks the things you do....something is terribly wrong with your outlook and lack of knowledge.
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Originally Posted by Clintone
I am not an antinatalist, but I wonder about the benefits of antinatalism.
Since there is no such word as "antinatalist", I don't really know what you are talking about. You are most certainly anti-non-human animal.
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Originally Posted by Clintone
For humans, we can heavily modify our behavior, so I'd much prefer just teaching us to be better.
Good luck with that. People have been trying that since the Dark Ages. I can't fathom you being any type of good influence on humans.
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Originally Posted by Clintone
For nonhumans though, I assume their lives are worth living, but it could be that they're not, and if their lives are not worth living now only humans can do something to change that. They can euthanize animals. They can euthanize predators and sterilize herbivores to make life more pleasant for the surviving animals. They can domesticate animals, etc.
This is coo coo talk. I am speechless. I think we should let the authorities know about you. I see no other word to describe what you just posted here other than this is insane in the membrane thoughts.
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Originally Posted by Clintone
At least I don't live in a fantasy land where the crocodiles and the gazelles are happy, merry friends who sing Kumbaya by candlelight together.
And neither do I.
And on top of that I certainly don't fantasize that humans are some superior species that should impose their will on other species. OR that have the right to control other animals fates. That's sick.
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Originally Posted by Clintone
I think all that would be a waste of time and resources when we have human beings starving now. However, if we ever have the potentially infinite resources of space available to us through, say, solar powered sails that could let us zip around the solar system mining and gathering energy from sunlight, maybe it would be an option. I doubt it...but I'm not sure.
First tell me why you think it's our duty to impose our will upon any sentient creature? This is beyond obtuse. Where does a person start with a statement such as this? You are a very dangerous mind on this planet.
We are animals and we evolved along with animals who have been here millions of years before we showed up. They made it just fine without us and today they make it just fine in nature without humans interfering in their lives. If they did not know what's best for them we would have zero animals on earth. There are far more animals on earth than humans...and they have no issues surviving and passing on their genes.
You don't seem to be thinking about the animals you claim to want to protect. They don't care about the survival of their species. If they are social animals, they'll care about animals in their group sometimes (I don't think we could say ants care about ants, but chimpanzees oftentimes will, as did my dogs). They don't care about passing on their genes. They might enjoy sex, or at least desire it. They might have the desire to care for their young, but what happens generations down the line won't bother them. They care about pain, and nervousness, and things they enjoy (like my dog Rosie used to love swimming). My dog didn't care about the survival of her genes. The very idea that the continuation of the species is a positive thing is a human concept.
I think my sister's boyfriends's brother ideally would not have been born. He has friends now, and people who love him now, and his life matters now, and his life has value now, but before he was born there was nothing to lose if his parents would have gotten an abortion. I might be able to say the same thing about myself, for all I know. Maybe it would have been better for society if I weren't born either. I don't care.
But...if it can be best if humans weren't born, what's wrong with ending the life cycles of nonhumans, necessarily, if we figure out their lives often aren't worth living?
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Do you even remotely get it? I have no hope in teaching you anything...you are too far gone.
This is why humans especially humans like you have no business imposing your will on any other sentient creature...especially since you think it's your right for some BIZARRE reason. This is insanity what you are posting.
See my above comment.
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Well then there is something horribly wrong with you to have the barbaric and bizarre thoughts that you do. You apparently did not learn anything in those courses.
You don't appear to be educated at all. The things you say are simply odd and not normal in anyway shape or form. Animals that live in the wild are doing so as evolution paved the way for them to do. There is nothing harming them or their ecosystems other than humans. Get a clue! Now take a good look around the globe and tell me how much better most humans are doing as opposed to animals who live in nature. You apparently don't know much about the world either.
Your posts scream "I don't know what I am talking about" "I have no understanding about the Animal Kingdom, Or about Ecosystems". I" have dangerous thoughts in thinking we have the right to control the Animal Kingdom and euthanize them".
I can assure you that no one is listening to you. You should do yourself a favor and just stop this nonsense.
Yep your a Millennial alright. I can spot them a mile away.
Yes, animals in the wild are eating each other, and dying of starvation and dehydration as evolution has paved the way for them to do. They are also enjoying the socialization of their packs, enjoying filling their stomachs, feeling the safety of their dens and more positive experiences too.
If a wolf eats a rabbit...that's harming the rabbit. That you claim "There is nothing harming them or their ecosystems other than humans" makes you sound to me as about as trustworthy as a homeless person on the street corner warning everyone about the apocalypse.
You think my posts scream "I have dangerous thoughts in thinking we have the right to control the animal kingdom"
How about when my sister went on a trip to save sea lion pups? She got bit a lot, and she fed them with bottles and her and a group of her friends saved a bunch of sea lion pups...hopefully. Isn't that a type of control, a type of interfering? We already mess with nature. We can't help it. We are nature. We live in nature. We use nature for resources. We're already in charge. We can either ignore that or accept that, and if we ignore that...that's just inaction. It's not removing the fact that we're largely in charge. I would say we have no choice but to control the animal kingdom.
And on top of that I certainly don't fantasize that humans are some superior species that should impose their will on other species. OR that have the right to control other animals fates. That's sick.
I think this thread is a waste of space.
I'm done.
Carry on with your bizarre thoughts.
Oh darn. I'll miss your ranting, barely coherent nonsense and you calling me stupid. Please, stay! Provide me with more of your bountiful wisdom!
Kids are more important than 42 year olds and cats are more important than me.
Don't quite get the euthanizing carnivores but sterilizing herbivores but that discussion is between you 2. On s personal note, tell your sister way to go. And get the boy a cat.
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Too much water will kill a human...do you consider water a poison. That's how obtuse you sound. 
