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For those using the term "fairy tales." You really should respect other's beliefs and values.
No, you should not. You should respect PEOPLE but not the ideas they hold. Ideas are not people. And they deserve no special treatment. Least of all the ones that are not just slightly, but ENTIRELY, unsubstantiated.
Take your own failed attempts to support concepts of the after life and reincarnation on other threads you ran away from. The ideas you presented are not just ridiculous, not just unsubstantiated, but actually contradict things that are evidenced and substantiated.
So while I respect YOU as a person and as a human, there is nothing whatsoever that demands respect for the ideas you have espoused.
As for the term "fairy tale"..... if something I observe appears to be a spade.... I will call it a spade. If something I observe appears to be a fairy tale.... I will call it a fairy tale. I am invested in the accurate and proper use of language. I am not going to use language incorrectly merely because someone does not like the spade being called a spade. That is their problem, not mine, and there is no reason for me to pander to it. At all.
I simply have never been shown, least of all by you, why ideas should be afforded respect. Until such time as I am, I will not be doing so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickchick
That still doesn't make sense to me either. How do you not experience anything forever? What does it feel like to not experience anything?
It is still not making sense because you are still thinking in exactly the opposite way of what I described. You are still thinking in terms of "what does it feel like" when what I clearly described was there being no you remaining to "feel" anything in the first place.
As long as you continue to frame it in terms of what you think it is going to feel like, you will continue not to be actually thinking about what it is I am actually describing to you.
What did it "feel like" to be you before your parents conceived you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickchick
The concept does not compute. Maybe this "you" is not experiencing anything but a new you is so what would this "you" turn into?
There is no reason at this time to think there will be a you, a new you, a changed you, or any form of you. It will merely be an absence entirely of you. And it will not feel like anything to be that "no you" because there will be "no you" to experience it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickchick
This is another reason why I think reincarnation is very possible. Even infections like cold do not necessarily die. They can come back.
A poor reason to believe in reincarnation because you have made an error there. Infections never "die" or "come back". They are always there. They are just usually there in such small quantities that you are not aware of them.
No one escapes death.
We will all die.
As a materialist atheist - I believe there is nothing but matter in the universe -no god , gods , spirits soul or anything ONLY atoms.
I believe we are our bodies more precisely our brains.
Our consciousness is a result of our brain.
And once we die, and our brain decomposes, that's it, we will never exist or experience anything for all eternity.
How do you handle that fact?.
To me it's terrifying and depressing that I will never experience anything again for all eternity.
It's not where you go, it's what happens along the way!
When you have a cold, do you avoid ever using OTC remedies simply because you'll get well eventually? It's the exact same mode of reasoning.
So I have had people tell me, "Who cares what I eat or drink, we are all going to die anyway."
Had a former co-worker that always said that as well. He was going to enjoy life to the fullest, which really meant he was going to make sure his plate was full of food at all times.
People are free to choose how they want to live. For me living my life to the fullest is being able to do things and get the most efficient use I can of this body that I have. For me that means eating right, getting plenty of sleep, cardio, weight training, and tons of stretching. At 51 I still play. Still love to be on the water, swim, surf, sail, and skateboard. You have to be a kid for as long as you can. My plan to battle aging is to stay active.
Believe in God, don't believe in God. Either way, I will tell you this, that you can extend your life by living well. Works out from every angle I can see. If you do not believe in God and think that this is it, then why not make the most of what you will get. If you do believe in God then why not make the most of what you have now. I would think those that believe in God would think that their Body is a Temple for their Spirit so they would want to make sure that no bad thing enters the body.
I want a quality of life. Years ago I read a billboard hosted by an Insurance company that read, "The first person to live to be 150 had already been born". I don't know if I will be the first person to do that but I have a goal of being someone that does live to be 150 years old. In nature many animals live their lifespan and then quietly go to bed and never wake up. That is how I want to go, a long life of good health and the next day gone. I want people to ask, what did Old Soon2B die from? Possible answers: "He was surfing and a shark ate him but it is ok because he lived to be 150." or, He had a skateboard accident and never recovered but at 150 he did have a nice long life." Or my favorite, "He died in his sleep at age 150."
What ever happens or what ever you choose to believe happens, I am planning on spending the next 99 years right here with the sand and the sun, living life on a board.
No, you should not. You should respect PEOPLE but not the ideas they hold. Ideas are not people. And they deserve no special treatment. Least of all the ones that are not just slightly, but ENTIRELY, unsubstantiated.
Take your own failed attempts to support concepts of the after life and reincarnation on other threads you ran away from. The ideas you presented are not just ridiculous, not just unsubstantiated, but actually contradict things that are evidenced and substantiated.
So while I respect YOU as a person and as a human, there is nothing whatsoever that demands respect for the ideas you have espoused.
If you respect people, then you respect their beliefs! Or we should at least accept their beliefs and stop with the silly "fairy tales" just because you don't agree with what someone says. What makes them wrong and you right?
I don't "run away from other threads." I just find it illogical to try and reason with a non-believer.
If you respect people, then you respect their beliefs!
Speak for yourself. I see the two as being ENTIRELY different things. I can respect people without respecting the beliefs they hold. And I can attack ideas without attacking the people who hold them.
In fact I respect my fellow humans too much NOT to engage with them robustly and rigorously over the ideas they hold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
Or we should at least accept their beliefs and stop with the silly "fairy tales" just because you don't agree with what someone says. What makes them wrong and you right?
Simple. Substantiation. Ideas are either substantiated or their are not. Ideas either contradict established substantiation or they do not.
It is not that I think I am right and anyone else is wrong. I do not think in those terms about me and other people. I think only in terms of WHAT ideas have been espoused and WHICH of those ideas has substantiation and which do not.
In other words I do not rank claims in terms of "right and wrong" but rather I place them on continuum based on how strongly they are substantiated. The claims YOU make that there is an after life and/or reincarnation have ZERO substantiation. Certainly none from you personally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fleet
I don't "run away from other threads." I just find it illogical to try and reason with a non-believer.
Your reason for the retreat does not change the fact of the retreat. The fact is you tried to argue for entirely unsubstantiated claims, you failed, and you left. What is illogical is not reasoning with a non-believer. What is illogical is espousing things as credible or true for which you have displayed a lack of ANY substantiation that they are credible or true.
But notice ALSO the difference in how dismissive we are. I describe your views as unsubstantiated (because they are) but remain EVER willing to engage and reason with you about any substantiation you wish to present. I do not throw my hands up and engage in the intellectual lazyness of "It is illogical to try and reason with a theist" or something similar.
So you harp on about respecting people? Yet you show the HEIGHT of disrespect by refusing to engage and merely dismissing entirely those that do not hold your position. So you do not appear to have any pedestal from which to admonish people on treating others with respect.... until such time as you display some yourself!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetgraphics
Convincing a materialist / atheist that there is an after life, etc, etc is as easy as explaining rainbows to a blind man using a tap dancing mime.
The difference however is that one CAN evidence the existence of rainbows to the blind. I can sit down with a blind person right now and present a wealth of arguments, evidence, data and reasoning that rainbows exist.
Contrast this to the people claiming there to be an after life. They are not offering ANY arguments, evidence, data or reasoning to support that position. And they are not addressing the arguments, evidence, data and reasoning that positively goes AGAINST that position.
There is a CHASM of difference between trying to explain something to the blind..... and merely declaring someone blind, who is not, and then running away.
No, you should not. You should respect PEOPLE but not the ideas they hold. Ideas are not people. And they deserve no special treatment. Least of all the ones that are not just slightly, but ENTIRELY, unsubstantiated.
Take your own failed attempts to support concepts of the after life and reincarnation on other threads you ran away from. The ideas you presented are not just ridiculous, not just unsubstantiated, but actually contradict things that are evidenced and substantiated.
So while I respect YOU as a person and as a human, there is nothing whatsoever that demands respect for the ideas you have espoused.
As for the term "fairy tale"..... if something I observe appears to be a spade.... I will call it a spade. If something I observe appears to be a fairy tale.... I will call it a fairy tale. I am invested in the accurate and proper use of language. I am not going to use language incorrectly merely because someone does not like the spade being called a spade. That is their problem, not mine, and there is no reason for me to pander to it. At all.
I simply have never been shown, least of all by you, why ideas should be afforded respect. Until such time as I am, I will not be doing so.
It is still not making sense because you are still thinking in exactly the opposite way of what I described. You are still thinking in terms of "what does it feel like" when what I clearly described was there being no you remaining to "feel" anything in the first place.
As long as you continue to frame it in terms of what you think it is going to feel like, you will continue not to be actually thinking about what it is I am actually describing to you.
What did it "feel like" to be you before your parents conceived you?
There is no reason at this time to think there will be a you, a new you, a changed you, or any form of you. It will merely be an absence entirely of you. And it will not feel like anything to be that "no you" because there will be "no you" to experience it.
A poor reason to believe in reincarnation because you have made an error there. Infections never "die" or "come back". They are always there. They are just usually there in such small quantities that you are not aware of them.
Name-calling and making fun of another person or trashing his/her beliefs seems childish and unnecessarily offensive. I disagree with many ideas and/or beliefs about many different things, yet I can do so without making snide remarks or without resorting to playground theatrics and insults. Not saying that you necessarily do that though, but many on C-D do that, especially when discussions center on politics and religion. Many people are civil at all other times, yet when discussing or debating those two subjects, many people regress to being bratty 12-year-olds.
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