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Brilliant post. And as technology advances, there will be fewer jobs anyway. People shouldn't be forced to work. Besides, most people want to work in some capacity, so there'd be more jobs for them if we weren't forced.
You are absolutely correct. And if they don't work, they starve, and society has NO obligation to help them out.
As for your last sentence, what does that even mean?
I've had my share of discussions on this subject, I've concluded that a lot of us don't like work, we weren't raised in the old agricultural hard work environment, and so it seems to be viewed in the realm of something alien to our habits of constant leisure and entertainment. I marveled at the amount of toys in my friend's children's rooms compared to what my family had as young kids, I see the kids watching TV in mom's SUV, birthday parties are pure over the top fantasia for many kids today and the poorest are still wearing 200 dollar shoes in order to be socially accepted. Many kids never work until they are out of college.
These kids will not be looking at work in the way our ancestors did, I've explained to many people that the entire notion of hard work came from the pre-industrial communal sense of self responsibility, not to mention our obligation to others in pursuit of their survival. Communal barn raising comes to mind. After the rise of industrialism the capital class took that moral sense of obligation and turned it on it's head, re-defined, as a moral obligation to the boss. Modern day work seldom has a physical draining aspect to it, long hours at a desk never equals digging a five hundred foot trench. So the term "hard work" today has a far different connotation to it, mostly the fact of it's cutting into that long childhood infatuation with being entertained amid the trappings of the leisurely life.
This brings us to the realization that an imported underclass of workers will continue as our answer to the remaining necessary hard work that our own youth see as a thing beneath them, after being told that doing manual labor is not a worthy pursuit we shouldn't expect any thing more from our children than their turning their backs to hard work. Kids do as they are told-- and that is what we tell them. The OP is reflecting on the modern view of work as a kind of sacred icon of our personal value, and in that view, hard work probably has little redeeming value, although, those that do want to eat and live in a decent dwelling will probably be working as they are ordered to, another distasteful thought for so many.
Well given the OP's post history I think there's something more personal and deeper than some critique like the one you suggest.
However, yes, the purpose of the progression of society should be to be able to have more and more leisure time to do what we want to do instead of work and working needlessly hard. It was character building for our ancestors to have walked 10 miles in the snow each way to school, but now that isn't necessary. And this generation shouldn't feel guilty or have regrets for not having to go through those same trials.
But success in terms of happiness and/or money does come from hard work. Monks meditating for years are working hard, and Brittany Spears, despite her natural talent, works plenty hard I'm sure. And traits like persistence, tenaciousness, repetition and sometimes doing things we don't want to do, DO build a sort of character when adversity does arise. And it's nice to have that Sisyphean backbone against certain odds or to plow through, that others can't or won't do. And anyone can do that.
That doesn't mean life is equitable and/or fair. And others have monumental tasks, while others don't, but that doesn't mean that one shouldn't be as best as they can be, or deny a certain potential because they believe their destiny was already written.
Perhaps so. So what? When you sit down and think about how the world really works it's hard not to be. But in the end the joke is on all the fools who don't know any better. Later in my life I will already have come into terms with my destiny while most other people will chase their false dreams for most of their lives only to walk away completely crushed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgsing
And the alternative is ?
Coming into terms with your place in the world, and thus hopefully one day obtain some kind of soul peace.
Perhaps so. So what? When you sit down and think about how the world really works it's hard not to be. But in the end the joke is on all the fools who don't know any better. Later in my life I will already have come into terms with my destiny while most other people will chase their false dreams for most of their lives only to walk away completely crushed.
Coming into terms with your place in the world, and thus hopefully one day obtain some kind of soul peace.
It's one thing to be at peace, but another to be completely jaded and angry at the world because it isn't fair.
Being at peace with one's self also means accepting the irony that constant peace in itself requires hard work.
Success is not money or position it's finding work you love to do. It may take years to accomplish this, but it's worth it in the end. In the meanwhile you must work hard enough to be valuable to your employer. You are just a commodity, so to get a paycheck you have to contribute much more to the business than you get. That is not slavery because you are free to leave. It is the way the world works. Very few people ever become rich and join the ranks of top leadership. My guess is many who do achieve status and riches are not any happier because of it. In fact many are less happy because of it. There's an old saying, if you love what you do you will never work another day in your life. You may accomplish more than others, but it won't feel like you are working harder than they are. When you get far enough ahead of the learning curve and master a job you enjoy doing, it may not feel like you are working at all. And if you love what you do you may become very good at it and therefore valuable enough to make a decent, comfortable living. To my way of thinking, that is real and substantial success. Dreams of fame and fortune are pipe dreams, and the very few who get there often have very little time to enjoy it.
And to the OP Hakkarin, I see you are in Iceland. Maybe there are no opportunities there, maybe you have to work at whatever job you can get and wait for the job you want. Or maybe you have to move where the jobs are. Opportunities do come, rarely, but you need to jump on them when the door opens. Maybe you need to find what you really want to do and determine if you are good at it. One hint will be if you are totally immersed in the subject matter, soaking up knowledge like a sponge, putting in the thousands of hours needed to master it.
The best advice I ever got in my life was from a boss who told me I could get pretty much what I wanted in life but it would take me way longer to get it than I wanted it too. I graduated from college in 1968. When I couldn't find work in LA, I moved to NYC. I did a variety of work that paid the bills and finally landed my dream job in 1989 at the age of 42. I had always loved computers and was a hobbyist for years, but didn't have the educational qualifications (there were no computer science degrees in 1968). I was offered a job as a unix sys admin in 1989 because I could operate a PC, and the pro from IBM who was hired for the job didn't show up. With no knowledge of unix or the servers or being a sys admin, I jumped at the chance. That was the work I loved which gave me a comfortable living and retirement.
Perhaps so. So what? When you sit down and think about how the world really works it's hard not to be. But in the end the joke is on all the fools who don't know any better. Later in my life I will already have come into terms with my destiny while most other people will chase their false dreams for most of their lives only to walk away completely crushed.
Coming into terms with your place in the world, and thus hopefully one day obtain some kind of soul peace.
I have to completely disagree with your first post. You're doing this thing where you take the 0.001% super-rich or super-famous as examples and how they got lucky or had family wealth and connections, and then use that to prove how hard work is pointless.
The real comparison that you should make is between someone who is lower middle class and someone else who is upper middle class.
Most likely, you will find that the person who is upper middle class would have studied hard in school, been consistent with their academics, worked even harder to get into good colleges, and then continued to work hard in their professional lives and careers. And they would have been rewarded with success in their careers, consistent increase in salaries, bonuses, etc.
Sure, just working hard is not enough, you need to work intelligently too. But even if you have raw intelligence and raw talent, nothing will come of it without consistent hard work.
And the truth is, in professional life, the harder you work, the more successful you become. Maybe doesn't hold true for some types of jobs, but definitely holds true for most jobs.
And conversely, you would often find that the ones who took it easy in high school and in college, the slackers, the jocks, the guys who would party all the time - they would end up with dead end low paying jobs, or would generally under-perform in career and wealth generation compared to the other kids with good grades and who worked hard on their schoolwork.
Perhaps so. So what? When you sit down and think about how the world really works it's hard not to be. But in the end the joke is on all the fools who don't know any better. Later in my life I will already have come into terms with my destiny while most other people will chase their false dreams for most of their lives only to walk away completely crushed.
Coming into terms with your place in the world, and thus hopefully one day obtain some kind of soul peace.
Sounds like you found some good weed.
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