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Old 10-17-2016, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC
4,321 posts, read 5,122,050 times
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Since the OP lives in Iceland, I don't think this thread has much value in America. I could see how Iceland's employment opportunities would be quite limited.

But gosh, I'd hate for young people anywhere to see (and believe) this. Good things don't often happen to people who don't work hard (at least some of the time).
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Old 10-17-2016, 09:53 AM
 
Location: East Midlands, UK
854 posts, read 517,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back to NE View Post
Since the OP lives in Iceland, I don't think this thread has much value in America. I could see how Iceland's employment opportunities would be quite limited.

But gosh, I'd hate for young people anywhere to see (and believe) this. Good things don't often happen to people who don't work hard (at least some of the time).
I think young people are perfectly capable of making up their own minds whether in America or Iceland
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Old 10-17-2016, 10:06 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
27,423 posts, read 28,498,647 times
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Iceland is supposed to be a rich country. But I wouldn't be surprised if upward mobility was harder in that country.

Not many places in the world are quite like the U.S. in that respect.
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Old 10-17-2016, 10:22 AM
 
Location: Washington, DC
4,321 posts, read 5,122,050 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazy-Cat-Lady View Post
I think young people are perfectly capable of making up their own minds whether in America or Iceland
OK, lets let them decide that hard work is for saps.
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Old 10-17-2016, 10:29 AM
 
486 posts, read 988,853 times
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I agree with the OP. Working hard does not guarantee success (my definition of success is earning decent money, having a stable/good paying job, fame, recognition, good life, basically not living under a bridge).

When I was younger I believed what the majority of people on this forum tout: Hard work brings success, and you can do it all on your own. Just get an education, work hard, life will reward you.

Now that I have lived a half a century on this planet, I understand (through my own experiences and experiences of people in my real life), that without good luck, a lucky opportunity, being at the right place, right time, being born into a supportive family who helps you obtain jobs, contacts, money, etc. it is incredibly hard to obtain success on your own merits alone.

I have 3 degrees, 25+ years working in various industries, I am not a felon, I am creative, smart, and I work hard (I always show up on time and get the job done correctly). In fact I just programmed an in-house POS (Point of Sale system) for a start-up brewery (by myself) that controls their cash register, sales, inventory, government taxes, keg/beer data, employees/hours worked, and purchases. I work hard and I solve problems.

Yesterday I got rejected from Target. I am not qualified to be a sales associate in a retail store, even though I have programmed a cash register POS system from the bottom up. I am still unemployed and I have been looking for work since March 2016. I have applied to 144 jobs, with 22 interviews. I am working hard, but nothing is coming from it. I hope a lucky break comes my way soon. It makes life much easier, and makes you less depressed, when you get lucky breaks once in a while.

Just my two cents which is worthless I am sure.
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Old 10-17-2016, 10:37 AM
 
Location: East Midlands, UK
854 posts, read 517,965 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peebola View Post
I agree with the OP. Working hard does not guarantee success (my definition of success is earning decent money, having a stable/good paying job, fame, recognition, good life, basically not living under a bridge).

When I was younger I believed what the majority of people on this forum tout: Hard work brings success, and you can do it all on your own. Just get an education, work hard, life will reward you.

Now that I have lived a half a century on this planet, I understand (through my own experiences and experiences of people in my real life), that without good luck, a lucky opportunity, being at the right place, right time, being born into a supportive family who helps you obtain jobs, contacts, money, etc. it is incredibly hard to obtain success on your own merits alone.

I have 3 degrees, 25+ years working in various industries, I am not a felon, I am creative, smart, and I work hard (I always show up on time and get the job done correctly). In fact I just programmed an in-house POS (Point of Sale system) for a start-up brewery (by myself) that controls their cash register, sales, inventory, government taxes, keg/beer data, employees/hours worked, and purchases. I work hard and I solve problems.

Yesterday I got rejected from Target. I am not qualified to be a sales associate in a retail store, even though I have programmed a cash register POS system from the bottom up. I am still unemployed and I have been looking for work since March 2016. I have applied to 144 jobs, with 22 interviews. I am working hard, but nothing is coming from it. I hope a lucky break comes my way soon. It makes life much easier, and makes you less depressed, when you get lucky breaks once in a while.

Just my two cents which is worthless I am sure.
I'm so sorry. I wish you all the best of luck. Employers ask for way too much. People who made it 20+ years ago were in a different world. Now it's all credentials and background checks. You need a degree for entry level admin jobs (along with the student loan debt to keep you enslaved to a job you hate while barely making it).
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Old 10-17-2016, 02:36 PM
 
179 posts, read 155,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Back to NE View Post
Since the OP lives in Iceland, I don't think this thread has much value in America.
Actually this thread is in the philosophy forum. I see it quite relevant to the human condition on planet earth. I live in America and find the original post SPOT ON.
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Old 10-17-2016, 05:24 PM
 
13,273 posts, read 8,392,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IamDot View Post
Actually this thread is in the philosophy forum. I see it quite relevant to the human condition on planet earth. I live in America and find the original post SPOT ON.
I agree!

Far too often we are sold a bill of lies. And pay for them dearly when the reality check shows up.

Will agree that when I had the high paying job that was easy peasy I loved working! It was a joy so ..it didn't take anything other then passion to make it a great day!
Then I got canned... and learned as someone shared...I became a number ..or a database reject. Simply because a new algorithm in hiring dismisses passion and wants, the"buzzword" of the day!
Heaven forbid if 35 years of work means anything...
I researched and the current job I have now is, what I got paid hourly back in 1987..! It's maddening that near 30 years and I am making what I did then, with more taxes taken out and an economy that is practically 45% higher for goods...
Not depression here, more about how experience means nada... and pays nada!!!
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Old 10-17-2016, 08:08 PM
 
2,209 posts, read 2,306,701 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Marcinkiewicz View Post
uh, not working hard? Working just hard enough to cover bare necessities and living a life of relative leisure otherwise?
I agree. The belief held by many that each person has to prove his/her worth or atone for the sin of being born by working hard is, to me, flawed. None of us is here due to our own volition; we were all brought into existence by someone else. Therefore, at least for me, I don't feel obligated to enslave myself to some job or profession to the degree that many seem necessary in order to attain validation from society. Obviously I have to work enough to support myself and to buy things, but I view work as just a means to an end and not some activity which validates me or raises my social capital or bestows upon me anything which I don't already posses intrinsically. If I did believe in using something external with which to define or validate me, it sure as heck would not be work. I applaud and envy those fortunate enough to not have to work or those who were able to retire at very young ages. None of us signed up for this thing called life, so why feel obligated to enslave oneself for years at a job or profession if one does not have to?
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Old 10-18-2016, 05:44 AM
 
179 posts, read 155,233 times
Reputation: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyJ34 View Post
None of us signed up for this thing called life, so why feel obligated to enslave oneself for years at a job or profession if one does not have to?
Here's my thinking. It is true not ONE of us asked to be born (unless there are alternate dimensions or lives, where we choose to come to this planet for some reason, which is another post for another day). But, our parents asked for us to be born. So, in my view our parents have an OBLIGATION to help us obtain a job or profession so we can live. Yes they do. Some societies understand this and help their children from day one to be successful (at least money-wise). Others don't do squat. I came from the latter.

Parents cannot birth you and then dump you on the earth and say "good luck, do everything on your own!" If that's the way they feel they should not bring any children into the world. So, yes, the circumstance of birth and what sort of parents you get is monumental in your monetary success, which trumps any hard work you can do on your own.
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