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As you said, statistically improbable. That is not the same as statistically impossible. If there is a 1 in one trillion probability of life arising on a planet, and you look at 10 trillion planets, it is not only possible but very likely for life to arise somewhere. This is a concept that many people seem to have trouble understanding.
For a real world example, see electron tunneling. Electrons flowing on one side of an impermeable barrier are occasionally detected on the other side of the barrier. They did not pass through the barrier. There is a small but non-zero probability of the electron existing on the other side.
That the cosmological constant is highly improbable to be what it is by coincidence doesn't keep atheist physicists from accepting it as chance, they accept its not coincidence.
They don't like it but they're not stupid either.
You can get to a point where something is so finely tuned that the suggestion of design becomes strong evidence. Thats where we are today.
1 in 10^ 120 is a very high improbability.
10^60 is greater the the number of atoms in the universe.
Computer can, so can Alexa or Siri. But it will not be INTELLIGENT response. (Turing test)
That consciousness is separate from the physical reality may be supported by Anthropic principle and Heisenberg (the real one) uncertainty principle.
PS. Even to create this thread, someone had to have consciousness. Even if it was a programmed machine, its programmer had to have consciousness to create program. No matter how far back in this chain you follow, there has to be something, that is conscious.
Ergo, consciousness exists.
Thread title: Consciousness is real
Is tautology per default.
It does not say "Consciousness is independently or objectively real".
Also, to be judged as objective or not, there is requirement of having conscious observer.
Again, no matter how you turn this, consciousness IS.
Yes I agree,
its not necessary to go further than John searles chinese room experiment.. https://youtu.be/TryOC83PH1g
Already told you - consciousness IS reason everything is the way it is. Everything is conscious as its function. To me, the most preposterous idea is to believe that organized universe with its laws and order and intelligent life "simply happened". There is very strict science( so much beloved by materialists in their arguments) called statistical probability. It is as science as it gets. It gives spontaneous whatever organization ZERO chance. Statistically improbable. Of course, materialists graciously prefer not to refer to that science.
But, if you consent to view that everything is conscious as its function, then you have to consent to view that consciousness was before everything and "made everything tick".
I think that can be tuned a bit finer.
in the beginning was the logos, information.
Before consciousness ( at least the human type).
The implication is that mind is the producer of information.
Mind is non physical.
So something non physical underlies everything and produces information,
that comes back to a universal mind.
Ok but in human physical terms its slightly different.
Whilst we experience consciousness, we also have proto- consciousness.
It is generated at the quantum scale , then arranged and synthesized into a streaming experience we call thought. Whether we create the whole show or pick it up from the universe like a spiritual radio, thats the question. Theres evidence both ways.
The argument that we are just flesh computers fails,
Penrose destroyed that notion in his book "The Emperors New Mind".
Whilst the brain does compute, it cannot produce self awareness simply by computation.
Something else is going on.
I sometimes think that consciousness is the greatest lie in the universe. Everything else would make sense in that everything is a bunch of matter crashing into other matter without a rhyme or reason. Consciousness needs a reason for why things are the way they are. How is it that, statistically, as far as we know, life is incredibly rare in the universe. It is almost like it isn't supposed to be there at all.
Even if life is everywhere, that would not explain consciousness.
That the cosmological constant is highly improbable to be what it is by coincidence doesn't keep atheist physicists from accepting it as chance, they accept its not coincidence.
They don't like it but they're not stupid either.
You can get to a point where something is so finely tuned that the suggestion of design becomes strong evidence. Thats where we are today.
1 in 10^ 120 is a very high improbability.
10^60 is greater the the number of atoms in the universe.
Quantum tunneling is not a very rare event.
- cosmological constant: physicists don't even agree there is such a thing, but at best it is a mathematical factor added into equations, not a measurement of something that is truly understood
- Physicists DO accept that it is coincidence, except in the sense that if it weren't so, we wouldn't be here debating it (anthropic principle)
- 1 in 10^ 120 is a very high improbability. I don't know what you are referring to with this number
- Quantum tunneling IS a very rare event. The number of electrons showing up on the "wrong" side is tiny compared to the total number of electrons. Yet we can observe it everyday, which is exactly my point. I would be a terrible hitter in major league baseball. But if I were thrown a billion pitches, eventually I would luck out and hit a home run!
Already told you - consciousness IS reason everything is the way it is. Everything is conscious as its function. To me, the most preposterous idea is to believe that organized universe with its laws and order and intelligent life "simply happened". There is very strict science( so much beloved by materialists in their arguments) called statistical probability. It is as science as it gets. It gives spontaneous whatever organization ZERO chance. Statistically improbable. Of course, materialists graciously prefer not to refer to that science.
But, if you consent to view that everything is conscious as its function, then you have to consent to view that consciousness was before everything and "made everything tick".
The organized universe doesn't need to have had consciousness to have happened in the first place, because the laws of the universe only exist in the mind of the those who apply such science and theories. The two-billion-year-old space rock was a two-billion-year-old space rock before humans told it what its laws were. If we say that conscious beings and the organized universe co-exist, then if conscious beings were entirely wiped out tomorrow, consciousness is irrelevant. The universe will go on.
There is methane on Earth and methane on Titan, and ice on Earth, Mars and Pluto, but there is only life on Earth (as far as we know). That is a simple example of what I'm saying. Matter crashing into matter, with the same materials appearing everywhere in space, except for consciousness.
I will leave it to stat whizzes, but I just think that if you took the number of conscious lifeforms as a percentage of the mass of the universe, statistically, they would comprise close to 0% of the total size. Then if you consider that they are nothing without their brainpower in regard to the shear forces of the universe - incredible forces and gas pressures and so forth - I don't find consciousness to be particularly relevant for anything. If we then say that we all return to the matter the universe is made of anyway, is consciousness real at all? "I think, therefore I am," we all know. Consciousness is the ripple in the water that doesn't fit.
- cosmological constant: physicists don't even agree there is such a thing, but at best it is a mathematical factor added into equations, not a measurement of something that is truly understood
- Physicists DO accept that it is coincidence, except in the sense that if it weren't so, we wouldn't be here debating it (anthropic principle)
- 1 in 10^ 120 is a very high improbability. I don't know what you are referring to with this number
- Quantum tunneling IS a very rare event. The number of electrons showing up on the "wrong" side is tiny compared to the total number of electrons. Yet we can observe it everyday, which is exactly my point. I would be a terrible hitter in major league baseball. But if I were thrown a billion pitches, eventually I would luck out and hit a home run!
Richard Dawkins accepts the word of physicists that the constants are not a coincidence, he quotes atheist nobel winner physicist Stephen Weinberg.
The constants are the laws of physics, you cannot find a physicist who thinks the laws of nature don't exist.
The cosmological constant is a very accurate measurement, no one doubts it.
Richard Dawkins accepts the word of physicists that the constants are not a coincidence, he quotes atheist nobel winner physicist Stephen Weinberg.
The constants are the laws of physics, you cannot find a physicist who thinks the laws of nature don't exist.
The cosmological constant is a very accurate measurement, no one doubts it.
The cosmological constant is a very accurate measurement, no one doubts it.
The force of gravity, g, is also a very accurate measurement. No one doubts it. But also, no one knows what gravity IS. The cosmological constant is a convenient number that can make certain equations balance out. But no one knows why. Current theory is that it represents the sum of Dark Energy, but this is yet unproven.
The Narrator in your video says, and reiterates, "It seemed there was hidden in the laws of nature a value so precise that it was impossible to deny our Universe was designed...." This statement is pure opinion, not proven with data and certainly not shared by the majority of physicists.
Any resort to a Designer of the Universe begs the following questions:
Who designed the Designer?
How did the Designer implement his design?
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