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Nonsense. First . . . there is nothing "physical" . . . it is a product of the molecular vibratory "speed" of our sensory system. Anything with a "faster" vibratory "speed" is sensed as less and less "solid" (liquid, gas, light, infra-red and other EM radiation). Using the "flame" analogy . . . as you alter the combustibles and the other factors that produce the flame . . . it changes the appearance of the flame. That doesn't make the flame equal to the combustibles . . . the flame is still an entirely different energy form. So it is with the "flame" of consciousness.
Scientifically and demonstrably untrue.
Your "mind" is a series of chemicals moved from one neuron to another in a great interlocking pattern. Regardless of anything else, if you change or block that chemical progression, the mind changes.
The "flame" of consciousness comes from the fact that you have redundant awareness system that allows you to monitor aspects of yourself. You essentially have two independent brains, and they can see what each other is doing to a certain degree.
In IT terms, brain is kinda like the software program for the body. Without the software, a computer is useless. Some of us are programmed with very outdated languages. Books, friends, drugs, etc are all a part of this programming. It is all a physical neuron network.
Describing the "factory" is not the same as describing the "product" it produces.
Describing the "factory" is not the same as describing the "product" it produces.
Analogies are bad and I started one by introducing an IT equivalence because, in essence, our brain responds to input. You extended it to another analogy but, to me, the factory/product are one here. I guess we are all in the early stages in deciphering the role of the 100 billion cells in the brian in making us become aware of self, forming our mind, our behavior, etc. EDIT: there are many books in this area - but for me mindlless relaxation and tv seem to be more important in my free time.
Only for the philosophically challenged who cannot see or understand the abstract nature of the words they use to camouflage their ignorance . . . like "function" of the brain, "illusion" of "Self" . . . whatever. What the heck is a "function" phenomenologically . . . how do I feel it, sense it, measure it, touch it, or in any other way establish its reality? Illusions cannot interact independently AS ILLUSIONS" with the universe . . our "Self" CAN. This may be above your philosophical paygrade . . . so no insult intended.
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Your "mind" is a series of chemicals moved from one neuron to another in a great interlocking pattern. Regardless of anything else, if you change or block that chemical progression, the mind changes.
My mind is the transformed energy form that results from the underlying brain activities as they transform the various forms of energy in the brain into a composite consciousness energy. No single neuron transformation is my mind. Of course . . . if you alter the input characteristics . . . you alter the output at that time. It does NOTHING to the output that has already BEEN transformed.
Quote:
The "flame" of consciousness comes from the fact that you have redundant awareness system that allows you to monitor aspects of yourself. You essentially have two independent brains, and they can see what each other is doing to a certain degree.
Brains don't "see" anything . . . they process signals. WE "see" . . . WE "hear" . . . a melody is ONLY discernible by a consciousness . . . because it is a specific sequence of waveforms in an "identifiable" order. A brain simply processes them as individual waveforms.
Do you think the mind is the same as the physical brain, or that the mind is non-physical?
I would assume atheists view the mind as only physical, excluding the supernatural or spiritual. While the religious would say it's non-physical or part of your soul.
A great question. And you're generally right, that atheists need to explain the mind in terms of the brain.
This is really one of the huge issues that nobody has been able to figure out. I don't think science is anywhere close to solving this--and many of the issues are philosophical, rather than scientific.
Personally, I tend to think there is no satisfactory physical explanation for the mind.
Only for the philosophically challenged who cannot see or understand the abstract nature of the words they use to camouflage their ignorance . . . like "function" of the brain, "illusion" of "Self" . . . whatever. What the heck is a "function" phenomenologically . . . how do I feel it, sense it, measure it, touch it, or in any other way establish its reality? Illusions cannot interact independently AS ILLUSIONS" with the universe . . our "Self" CAN. This may be above your philosophical paygrade . . . so no insult intended. My mind is the transformed energy form that results from the underlying brain activities as they transform the various forms of energy in the brain into a composite consciousness energy. No single neuron transformation is my mind. Of course . . . if you alter the input characteristics . . . you alter the output at that time. It does NOTHING to the output that has already BEEN transformed.Brains don't "see" anything . . . they process signals. WE "see" . . . WE "hear" . . . a melody is ONLY discernible by a consciousness . . . because it is a specific sequence of waveforms in an "identifiable" order. A brain simply processes them as individual waveforms.
Spoken like someone who hasn't read or didn't understand high school neurological physiology.
Not an insult, just a recognition of the ignorance you espouse.
Spoken like someone who hasn't read or didn't understand high school neurological physiology.
Not an insult, just a recognition of the ignorance you espouse.
You're right . . . my knowledge of neurophysiology is at a much higher level (PhD). Most of the neurophysiologists I knew were "concrete" thinkers whose ability to engage philosophical "abstractions" was limited. It is a frequent disability of mathematicians, chemists, biologists, and physicists as well. There was a time when scientists were the philosophers, too . . . but since Leibnitz . . the knowledge explosion has made grasping the philosophical significance of extant knowledge impossible for any single individual. So philosophical skills have waned as specialist skills have flourished.
You're right . . . my knowledge of neurophysiology is at a much higher level (PhD). Most of the neurophysiologists I knew were "concrete" thinkers whose ability to engage philosophical "abstractions" was limited. It is a frequent disability of mathematicians, chemists, biologists, and physicists as well. There was a time when scientists were the philosophers, too . . . but since Leibnitz . . the knowledge explosion has made grasping the philosophical significance of extant knowledge impossible for any single individual. So philosophical skills have waned as specialist skills have flourished.
I concur with this post.
And Leibniz is the MAN. His theory of mind/body harmony is brilliant, bizarre, and elegant. I think I love any post where he's mentioned.
Mystic, I'm not sure I understand the theory you're putting forth. So the "physical" is nothing but molecules moving "very fast"? I'm sure I'm oversimplifying it...
Mystic, I'm not sure I understand the theory you're putting forth. So the "physical" is nothing but molecules moving "very fast"? I'm sure I'm oversimplifying it...
I have posted this elsewhere I'm sure . . . but to recap. Speed is something we misunderstand because of our linear thinking. Reality is stratified into various forms by the cumulative standing wave frequency patterns of the composite energy forms that comprise them. (frequency is an expression of vibratory "speed.")Actually, the only thing that exists in our universe is energy. It is merely stratified into differing states. The separation of these "states" is determined by the relation of their resultant vibratory "speeds" to each other. Matter, or mass, is energy "decelerated" (slowed) from the square of the speed of light. Conversely, energy is matter accelerated to the square of the speed of light. This is Einstein's famous equation in words.
To understand the philosophical significance of energy, we must change our basic linear notion of speed as a characteristic of getting somewhere. Speed illustrates relativity and will be useful in simplifying the concept, as Henri Bergson observed, "percevoir signifie immobiliser."
You can visualize the relativistic nature of matter and energy by imagining the passing of a tremendously fast automobile close to you on the highway. If you are stationary, the car as it passes will be an invisible blur, in essence, pure motive energy. Now picture yourself on the same highway in another car travelling at an identical speed. The other car will now be a solid object to your eyes, not a blur of energy.
All matter is in continuous molecular motion. The speed of this molecular motion determines the state we view it in. All our visible matter is that which is traveling at relatively the same range of molecular speed that our bodies are. This is the normal range of molecular activity as it contains those energy states that we can sense as solids or composite entities. This is a limitation of our bodily senses.
Our senses are limited by the speed of the molecular activity that comprises their very existence. We are not equipped to sense as a composite any substance that exists at the square of the speed of light. When the speed of molecular activity reaches the square of the speed of light, it becomes pure energy to us because it exceeds the normal range.
Essentially, those things with molecular activity at similar speeds to ours are the living forms of substance, both animate and inanimate. Animate life forms are the ones whose molecular speed is identical to ours. Inanimate life forms are slower, but still living. The things whose molecular speeds are so slow relative to ours that they appear immobile are the lifeless (inorganic) forms.
The forms of substance with molecular speeds faster than ours appear less and less solid, from the fluid and gaseous states to the speed range designated as energy. As long as the molecular speed of our body and senses remains fixed, we can never see the fastest substance as anything but a blur of energy.
Solid Matter is merely a form of Energy. This concept is vital. Therefore, I shall emphasize it and put it in the plainest possible terms. Solid matter and energy are NOT different phenomena. They are IDENTICAL, which is a primary source of confusion in our mathematical depictions. The only difference is their relative range of speed on either side of our molecular speed.
The harder a substance is to our senses, the slower is its molecular speed in relation to ours. The less solid a substance is to our senses, the faster its molecular speed is to ours. Energy is the term we use to describe substance in the speed range that we can no longer sense as a whole in this time-space. This does not mean it is any less "substance." Our consciousness reaches this "pure energy"speed range" . . . "our fleeting thoughts". . . like the "fleeting and flickering" flames of a fire.
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In IT terms, brain is kinda like the software program for the body. Without the software, a computer is useless. Some of us are programmed with very outdated languages. Books, friends, drugs, etc are all a part of this programming. It is all a physical neuron network.
I guess we are all in the early stages in deciphering the role of the 100 billion cells in the brian in making us become aware of self, forming our mind, our behavior, etc. EDIT: there are many books in this area - but for me mindlless relaxation and tv seem to be more important in my free time.
