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Old 08-25-2010, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Everywhere and no where
1,108 posts, read 1,373,425 times
Reputation: 1996

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Quote:
Originally Posted by las vegas drunk View Post
... the service sector is not nearly as prosperous.
Source for this please.

 
Old 08-25-2010, 12:13 PM
 
682 posts, read 2,557,800 times
Reputation: 344
[quote=Ponderosa;15609975]
Quote:
Originally Posted by altus2006 View Post
Lower interest is a better deal but not 10s of thousands better. Loans get paid back in inflated dollars. You have to figure the present value of those future payments. It would cost you about 12% of principal to buy down a loan from 6 to 4.5% or $12,000 present value on a $100,000 mortgage. That's better than the $6k credit, still. The interest deal gets better the more you borrow too where the credit was fixed. The economy curmudgeons seem to have changed their tune from warning us all about rampant inflation a couple of months ago to warning us of deflation now. Who knows? But, should the inflation take hold and rates rise like they might, that home at 4.5% is going to be the deal of a lifetime for those who get can it.
The difference between the two percentages on a 30 year loan is over $33,000. I think that is a big deal, especially when compared to the up front tax credit (which all of us are subsidizing).

altus2006
 
Old 08-25-2010, 12:28 PM
 
10,494 posts, read 27,117,790 times
Reputation: 6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidAZ View Post
Source for this please.
The "source" is the current terrible economy since the USA lost its production base . Here is what NAFTA and GATT did. I assure you it is worth your time:

Clinton's Signing NAFTA/GATT Cut America's Economic Throat
 
Old 08-25-2010, 12:36 PM
 
Location: Everywhere and no where
1,108 posts, read 1,373,425 times
Reputation: 1996
Quote:
Originally Posted by las vegas drunk View Post
The "source" is the current terrible economy since the USA lost its production base . Here is what NAFTA and GATT did. I assure you it is worth your time:

Clinton's Signing NAFTA/GATT Cut America's Economic Throat
Sorry but not good enough.

You say a service economy is not as prosperous as a production economy. You need to prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a production based economy is more prosperous.

What you cited is completely inadequate. Just as if someone were to point to the 1920's, when a production based America fell into a depression.

You need to back up your claims, since you present yourself as an expert or someone who relies on experts for your claims.
 
Old 08-25-2010, 12:40 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
38,952 posts, read 50,866,357 times
Reputation: 28133
[quote=altus2006;15620233]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post

The difference between the two percentages on a 30 year loan is over $33,000. I think that is a big deal, especially when compared to the up front tax credit (which all of us are subsidizing).

altus2006
You're missing my point. The 33K you claim is inflated (future value) dollars. The money you pay back is not worth what it was when you borrowed it. A dollar 30 years from now might only buy what 30 cents does today. Minimum wage might be $25 an hour (that was a joke). As an estimate of present value, you can look at what it would cost in present day dollars to entice a lender to drop the interest rate. These days that is about 8 "points" or percent on the principle borrowed for each % reduction in interest rate - or a present value of 12K for a percent and a half. That 12K will be 33K inflated dollars over the life of the loan. You are not really saving 33K in today's money - you are saving about 12K in today's money.

And you're nuts if you think we don't pay for the interest buy down. The fed is printing IOUs to buy up these loans and hold down rates. You know who the "I" is in IOU.

I don't know what rates would be without the Fed/Gov involved. Bill Gross, CEO of PIMCO - a bond investment company - said in a newsletter today that he figured rates would go up 3-4% without the government guarantees and purchases.
 
Old 08-25-2010, 12:47 PM
 
10,494 posts, read 27,117,790 times
Reputation: 6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by AndroidAZ View Post
Sorry but not good enough.

You say a service economy is not as prosperous as a production economy. You need to prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt, that a production based economy is more prosperous.

What you cited is completely inadequate. Just as if someone were to point to the 1920's, when a production based America fell into a depression.

You need to back up your claims, since you present yourself as an expert or someone who relies on experts for your claims.
If you're too blind to see it, I can not help you, sorry.
 
Old 08-25-2010, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
38,952 posts, read 50,866,357 times
Reputation: 28133
Quote:
Originally Posted by las vegas drunk View Post
If you're too blind to see it, I can not help you, sorry.
Great answer.
 
Old 08-25-2010, 12:53 PM
 
10,494 posts, read 27,117,790 times
Reputation: 6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
Great answer.
Ok, then tell me how we are going to get out of this situation and prosper which you are claiming is going to happen? I am all ears.
 
Old 08-25-2010, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
38,952 posts, read 50,866,357 times
Reputation: 28133
Quote:
Originally Posted by las vegas drunk View Post
Ok, then tell me how we are going to get out of this situation and prosper which you are claiming is going to happen? I am all ears.
If you're too blind to see it, I can not help you, sorry.
 
Old 08-25-2010, 12:59 PM
 
10,494 posts, read 27,117,790 times
Reputation: 6716
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
If you're too blind to see it, I can not help you, sorry.
I have posted evidence which the other poster chose to discredit. You have posted nothing that shows how we are going to be so prosperous that housing is going to increase 20%. I am asking you nicely, how do you think this is going to happen when most of our jobs have been outsourced and are not coming back? Who is going to buy all these houses?

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