What's the deal with charter schools? (Phoenix, Chandler: sales, credit, homes)

[beckyinaz]

Starting to research schools for next year for my daughter. I'm not thrilled with the school that we're zoned for so I'm researching other options. There are several possible charter schools I'm considering, but having a tough time grasping the concept of what a charter school is and how it differs from public schools. I know of some of the positive arguments (they are held to more strict guidelines, such as smaller class sizes) but what are the negatives? I'm having a hard time imagining how my daughters jr. high or high school experience will be iif she's at a charter school vs the local public school...

anyone have experience with their children (or themselves) in a charter school? I've been impressed with what I've heard when I talk to the charter schools themselves, but would love hearing from someone who has a direct experience... How does it compare to public school?

[Ponderosa]

Some are good, some are bad, some are great some are terrible - just like the "District" schools are.

I think the AZ patterm is pretty much what is seen in the rest of the US. Charters often outperform district schools in poorer areas and the district schools often outperform the charters in the more affluent areas. As for the experience, not too many charters have the extracurricular/athletic activities that are such a large part of the High School experience.

NOTE: AZ is an open enrollment state. You can take your kids to any school whether you are in that district or not subject to the District accepting them. You have to provide your own transportation, too.

[cardui]

Hi, we're in CA but our children are enrolled through a charter school.

First, charter schools are public schools. They are not necessarily held to stricter guidelines; it all depends on how the charter for that particular school is written.

Charters exist to provide alternatives to traditional public schools. Some are highly academic, some are waldorf-based, montessori-based, child-led, sudbury/democratic-based, technology-based, etc.

So, rather than only offering free standards-based education, charters seek to offer the public an edeucational model based on a particlur philosophy, much like a secular private school that parents research and choose based on the model/philosophy and their child.

Because they are still public, charters do have to adhere to certain guidelines, such as mandatory state-standards testing beginning in 2nd grade (the difference though is that the charter does not necessarily have to spend the year using standardized curriculum to prepare for these tests). Charters are also required to hire state-certified teachers as opposed to teachers hired by private schools who are trained to teach in that particular model's philosophy (montessori or waldorf-trained, for example).

There are charters that are literature-based and use classics and quality literature to study history an language arts, math stories for math and nature-based science programs, instead of relying on textbooks and worksheets. There are even charter schools that serve homeschoolers and offer resources and/or enrichment classes and/or part-time campus-based programs for their students.

I would highly recommend you research exactly what type of charters are available in your area and determine if they would be a good fit for your family based on your goals and your children's learning style. A child who loves reading and art may not be particularly well-suited for a technology and science-based program, for example.

I think the charter school movement is making great strides in giving parents and families alternatives to standardized textbook/worksheet/assesment-style education.

Also keep in mind there is usually a lottery-style system to get in; I know there is a 2-year wait list for the local charter schools in our area. They are highly desirable to many (not all) families because they offer the freedom to choose the type of education you envision for your child without the hefty private school price tag- although some would argue they are not all necessarily as equipped and/or operated as smoothly as some private schools.

Hope that helps!

[pbenjamin]

One of our sons went to Arizona School for the Arts, which is a non-profit 5-12 charter school just north of downtown near Phoenix's central library. Although it has an arts component (all students take two hours of performing arts classes a day) it has a strong college prep atmosphere. His graduating class was something like 30 kids, and they all were accepted into 4 year schools. There were no interscholastic sports, no cheerleaders, etc., and if that is real important, don't go there. They are regularly at or near the top in the state in test scores. The school is accredited as a College Prep school, which puts it in the company of places like Brophy and Phoenix Country Day School. Class sizes were very small, often less than 10 people. In comparison to the alternative at our home in the PV district, this was a great choice. He went to school with some very bright creative people, many of whom have remained friends years later. He also got into a top flight university.

I would recommend ASA to anyone serious about their child's education. I have heard good things about and seen high test scores from some other charter schools such as Tempe Preparatory Academy.

Be aware that there are some terrible charters out there as well. Look at test scores, see what the purpose of the place is. Some specialize in particular areas of learning, some cater to children who have problems in traditional schools, etc.

[grmi66]

Our kids were in a charter school in Phoenix and each one has it's own personality. At our first meeting at the school the principal was really clear and said that because they were a charter school they had to take anyone who applied. However if you were looking for a touchy feely school that would give your kid positive vibes all day long, that charter school was down the street. If you want the basics, tough standards and mandatory uniforms, this was the school for you. Just make sure that you do your research, there are some really good charter schools out there.

[twiggy]

Some close down without much warning as well. Make sure they have a good track record, you don't want your child to play ring around the charter schools either.
Since they can open anywhere you might be surprised at some of there locations, places that were bars, strip malls, etc. Make sure they have a good grasp on the future and keep there p's and q's in order.
Everyone else explained them really well, they are specialty schools, or schools that deal with discipline issues, kids that are having a hard time in regular school, gifted kids, artsy kids, computer kids, you name it! Make sure it fits your child.

[beckyinaz]

Thanks for the info so far, looking forward to hearing more. I'm in the far west valley, so the ones I'm hearing a lot of buzz about are Great Hearts, Odyssey, Imagine, and Crown. Problem is, many are new (within the last year or two) so not much info out there online). Great Hearts seems to have a strong academic program (from what I've read and heard) and appears to be a strong college prep school (in 2009 the Chandler Great Hearts school had 81% offered at least one scholarship). With AZ public schools as a whole doing so poorly in comparison to the rest of the country, I'm leaning towards their school, but almost worry it will be "too much" - they talk about how rigorous their academic standards are. I liked Odyssey from the discussions I've had with their office, but haven't yet "dug deeper" on them, and I have't yet researched the other two very much.

I know I can also get a variance, but to be honest, the one I would like I've heard doesn't have room to give variances, and some of the previously "more desired" schools are accepting so many variances that the classrooms are creeping up to 30+ kids! Not yet sure what the right answer is but I'm interested in the feedback I've received so far and would love to hear additional feedback as well.

[azriverfan.]

There are Arizona/Phoenix haters on this forum. One of their common and shady tactics is to attack our schools by claiming we don't have a plethora of private schools.

If you saw these charter schools, heard their names and saw the curriculum, you would think these were private schools. After all, a school like Paragon Science Academy in Chandler would be a private or magnate school in any other state.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that with few exceptions, charter schools here are for all intents and purposes private schools. Sure, there are exceptions but the majority of charter schools are designed to excel and be superior to the public school system regardless of their philosophy. Harvard is an excellent private university that offers a well rounded education. Amherst is a great liberal arts university. MIT is a great science and technical school. Juliard is a great arts school. All of these offer a superior education. Likewise, most of the charters, regardless of their philosophy are superior schools.

Another myth is that our public schools are bad here. We have some very bad schools that do poorly on standardized testing due to the large immigrant population that attends these schools. After all, if you don't speak English well, how are you going to excel on a standardized test. Those schools bring down the rest of the state with regard to test scores. However, most areas particularly in the Phoenix metro have excellent schools. It's just another tactic by the haters to exaggerate or embellish the negatives facing Arizona. In other words, they will use the standardized test scores to paint a broad brush about the schools in the Phoenix metro. It's just a lot of false negative propaganda spread by them.

Don't take my word for it, go to a website like greatschools.com and you will find that despite all the negatives you've heard, there are a lot of excellent schools in your area. The haters would have you believe there are only 5-10 good schools in the entire Phoenix metro.

[Jukesgrrl]

Look carefully at who/what established and is currently running any charter school you're considering. Some of these schools were founded to foster particular beliefs within impressionable young people. They have deeply ingrained cultural/religious/political points of view that will be an underlying thread in everything that is taught to your child. Make sure you know what those are and agree with them before you send your child to school there. You may think that your attitudes as the parent will prevail with your child, but keep in mind that teachers play a big role in molding kids, not to mention that peer pressure is a killer.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by azriverfan.

There are Arizona/Phoenix haters on this forum. One of their common and shady tactics is to attack our schools by claiming we don't have a plethora of private schools.

If you saw these charter schools, heard their names and saw the curriculum, you would think these were private schools. After all, a school like Paragon Science Academy in Chandler would be a private or magnate school in any other state.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that with few exceptions, charter schools here are for all intents and purposes private schools. Sure, there are exceptions but the majority of charter schools are designed to excel and be superior to the public school system regardless of their philosophy. Harvard is an excellent private university that offers a well rounded education. Amherst is a great liberal arts university. MIT is a great science and technical school. Juliard is a great arts school. All of these offer a superior education. Likewise, most of the charters, regardless of their philosophy are superior schools.

Another myth is that our public schools are bad here. We have some very bad schools that do poorly on standardized testing due to the large immigrant population that attends these schools. After all, if you don't speak English well, how are you going to excel on a standardized test. Those schools bring down the rest of the state with regard to test scores. However, most areas particularly in the Phoenix metro have excellent schools. It's just another tactic by the haters to exaggerate or embellish the negatives facing Arizona. In other words, they will use the standardized test scores to paint a broad brush about the schools in the Phoenix metro. It's just a lot of false negative propaganda spread by them.

Don't take my word for it, go to a website like greatschools.com and you will find that despite all the negatives you've heard, there are a lot of excellent schools in your area. The haters would have you believe there are only 5-10 good schools in the entire Phoenix metro.

Charter schools must be doing a good sales (snow) job on the public if most people believe as you do about them. In fact, in AZ charters do about the same as public schools in some studes and significantly worse than public schools in other studies - particularly in math. In any event, charters are an alternative that should be carefully investigated. Believing all charters or even most offer superior education for students is reckless. The best charters like the best public schools are in affluent areas with affluent enrollees. The poor ones, charter and district, get the short end of the academic stick. If you move to a poorer area it is likely that neither charter or district schools will be very good. Parental expectations and involvement weigh heavily.