People who want to tell other people how to live - is this a red state thing? (Phoenix: how much, lawyer)

[mistygrl092]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I'd like to see those cameras put back on the I10 construction section from Goodyear to Buckeye. Since they came down, the place is insane with people roaring through at 85 mph, jumping across lanes etc. There seems to be a crash a day out there with several of them being fatal. It was a much more ordered scene when they had camera vans.

THANK YOU! We may disagree on certain points, but we do see eye to eye on this (oh, and read this AFTER my post).

[Finger Laker]

there were never any cameras in that area

the first fixed camera was out by watson in buckeye .... then nothing until well past the 101

they would occasionally stick a mobile van at the estrella exit on the eastbound and another by 107th eastbound .... 107th westbound and just before verrado way westbound ..... nothing that was there everyday or really impactful for the bulk of that stretch

there really also hasn't been a jump in accidents or fatal accidents

In fact, when the cameras were still up they were trying to explain why there was an increase in accidents over this stretch which is uncommon because cameras were supposed to help as well as the fact that accidents usually decrease during construction

[Finger Laker]

Originally Posted by mistygrl092

Really? I live in Scottsdale and am pretty sure those cameras are still flashing.

that's why I said some municipalities

Scottsdale =/= DPS, the DPS contract is over

cities like avondale scrapped their camera programs as well (it was estimated avondale was losing over $100,000 per year on the program)

converse this to places IL, OR, WA that are expanding their programs

Although as Ritchie pointed out, it's not a red/blue issue

Really few things are

LA, TN and some other red states also have expanding programs

the AZ program scaled back from the initiative pushed by our blue leadership

when you focus on red/blue you lose focus of any actual point

[Bondurant]

Originally Posted by mistygrl092

Will you AT LEAST let me finish off my house? I have had a guy here working on it for seven weeks (ok, he's slow). Once he's done it can go on the market. Don't worry, I'll leave. I'll leave before prices continue to spiral down and this house is worth zero.

BUT, I do have research to do. The next state MUST be Blue (never had lived in a red state before), must have a high risk insurance pool, must have strong homestead laws, and I have to be able to buy some sort of house there.

Good luck with that. Blue states love their taxes. Especially their property taxes. There's a reason why people are fleeing California and New Jersey and New York. No one can afford to live there.

[mistygrl092]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

there were never any cameras in that area

the first fixed camera was out by watson in buckeye .... then nothing until well past the 101

they would occasionally stick a mobile van at the estrella exit on the eastbound and another by 107th eastbound .... 107th westbound and just before verrado way westbound ..... nothing that was there everyday or really impactful for the bulk of that stretch

there really also hasn't been a jump in accidents or fatal accidents

In fact, when the cameras were still up they were trying to explain why there was an increase in accidents over this stretch which is uncommon because cameras were supposed to help as well as the fact that accidents usually decrease during construction

I spend no time out that way, so I have no idea. I STILL believe the cameras on the freeways are a GOOD thing to have.

[mistygrl092]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

that's why I said some municipalities

Scottsdale =/= DPS, the DPS contract is over

cities like avondale scrapped their camera programs as well (it was estimated avondale was losing over $100,000 per year on the program)

converse this to places IL, OR, WA that are expanding their programs

Although as Ritchie pointed out, it's not a red/blue issue

Really few things are

LA, TN and some other red states also have expanding programs

the AZ program scaled back from the initiative pushed by our blue leadership

when you focus on red/blue you lose focus of any actual point

Believe it or not, I spend my time here in Scottsdale and pay very little attention to anything outside my little world. Oh sure, I do volunteer in a couple of places in Phoenix, but other than that, I stay here, so I wouldn't know about all this stuff. Plus, I do NOT watch local news as I have zero interest as to what goes on in this town.

I know enough to KNOW that nothing will be done for the common interest of the average Joe here, so I tune everything else out. It's easier that way.

[mistygrl092]

Originally Posted by Bondurant

Good luck with that. Blue states love their taxes. Especially their property taxes. There's a reason why people are fleeing California and New Jersey and New York. No one can afford to live there.

Well, as much as I'd love to return to CA (and when I lived there my property taxes were very reasonable), I can't. Unemployment is too high and living here has ruined my resume. IOW, I could not compete.

I won't go to the East Coast as I just won't. OR and WA are on my radar.

[pjg66]

Originally Posted by Ponderosa

I think everyone tells others how to live to one degree or another. Red, blue, green, left, right, religious or atheist. Yes, even the Libertarians, who love to tell us the right way to live is to not tell others how to live, do it. It seems to be our nature to think our choices are superior to those of the next guy.

Sensible post. This thing "I know what's best for everyone else" is not just a conservative or liberal thing. It's human nature. And it's been going on forever. It's been the source of countless wars and bloodshed.

Whenever I get discouraged or frustrated by the intolerance (even hatred) some people exhibit over other folks' opinions, lifestyles or life choices, I take a deep breath and try to look at the bigger picture.

For all its faults, this country has made HUGE progress in tolerating diversity and difference. For example, at one time marrying someone of a different race, if not actually illegal, would result in pretty much being socially ostracized. And a gay person, if not closeted, had zero chance of holding a decent job. Sure, there remain a lot of people in a lot of places that still hate anyone who is different, but overall progress has been made.

And sure, there still is progress to be made.

America is unique in human history - the idea that all men are created equal and have certain unalienable rights, actually encoded into our founding documents. Even though the founding fathers may not have had certain men in mind (enslaved blacks, for instance), eventually those words were considered to cover everyone (often through a lot of upheaval and bloodshed).

Sorry to get philosophical on you, but whenever I see a lot of this liberal/conservative, blue-state/red-state squabbling, I take comfort in pondering what I believe America is really about.

[Cyborg13]

I really can't simplify the issue any more. This debate is like showing you a mirror and you denying that it's you in the mirror.
You started the thread to attack the Republicans for some kind of obesity-related tax, although no specific details were provided so I can't find any information about it. Regardless of the specifics, it is exactly the same issue as the SFO kids' meal law, which you are defending even though you say straightforward that you know little about it (yet another liberal standard). What does that say about you?
Your issue is not with the issue, but with the people behind it, which is how you can "justify" your original post but then claim to not be contradicting yourself when you then defend the very same issue. This is the very problem with mainstream politics. Someone anonymous on the internet said that a Republican somewhere might be possibly thinking about maybe taxing something related to obesity has you up in arms and making posts on City-Data. Then somehow a Democratic city legislature that actually does pass a fascist law dictating what a restaurant can or cannot serve is OK by you. But it is the same issue.
If anything, implementing a tax on unhealthy food would be the preferable of two bad options, because at least the choice would still be available. I can choose to not only pay the tax, but deal with the consequences of eating unhealthfully. This law in SFO eliminates choice and forces you to eat the fruit whether you want it or not. It also gets into communism vs free-market issues because the restaurant is now essentially under government control, serving only what is approved.

I don't know that it's so much about wanting to tell others how to live, rather feeling good or ok about the choices WE have made. Ok, maybe I just explained the liberal perspective.

What choice? You said you supported SFO's law which specifically bans choice! Liberal perspective indeed.

Sure, the Blue states want to improve nutrition and health. The Red States are in favor of the MIC and killing people. BIG difference.

Not sure what MIC is, or how Republicans want to kill people, but keep telling yourself that and living in your own little world (more on this later). I think all states are in favor of improving nutrition and health. The BIG difference is how they go about it. Blue states, like California and New York, feel like passing fascist laws telling restaurants what they can and cannot serve is how to do it. Red states prefer education campaigns to help people make informed decisions while still allowing them the choice.

It just ticks me off I live in Nazi land at every damn corner in Scottsdale practically.

I can see the cameras on freeways, as they slow down 100 mph speeders. I just cannot see how my driving 47 in a 45 should get me a ticket in Scottsdale.

So do you support or oppose the cameras? Once again, you are trying to take both sides on an issue. Or should they only be there to enforce certain laws, like the ones you don't want to break? I guess you like to run red lights or something, but have an issue with speeders. Of course once again, statistics are against you, as intersections are 5 times more dangerous than speeding on the highway. If anything, all of the cameras cause more danger than they prevent, and statistics show it. But this is another issue that has been beaten to death in numerous other threads.

I'm not surprised, and I have always been in favor of the ones on the freeways, as people just drive too damn fast on the freeways. That leads to fatalities. And I'm a liberal so no qualms there.

No qualms about what...Big Brother? Of course not. But you are once again misinformed. Speed does not cause fatalities. Inattentiveness does. If you want to argue these points, then you need to come out of your bubble and educate yourself, because you are displaying massive ignorance with nearly every post you make.

Believe it or not, I spend my time here in Scottsdale and pay very little attention to anything outside my little world. Oh sure, I do volunteer in a couple of places in Phoenix, but other than that, I stay here, so I wouldn't know about all this stuff. Plus, I do NOT watch local news...

That says EVERYTHING doesn't it. Such strong opinions for someone who doesn't pay attention, and even ADMITS they don't pay attention. Now that is what liberalism is all about.

As Metallica so eloquently put it nearly 20 years ago: "Hearing only what you want to hear, and knowing only what you've heard."

[Cyborg13]

Originally Posted by Finger Laker

In fact, when the cameras were still up they were trying to explain why there was an increase in accidents over this stretch which is uncommon because cameras were supposed to help as well as the fact that accidents usually decrease during construction

Exactly, and this is in line with what I touched on my last massive post there. The mere presence of the cameras causes idiots who already probably shouldn't be on the road to react in unpredictable ways, like slamming on their brakes, and leads to more accidents. Not to mention it causes traffic thickening, which increases the chance of accidents. It is basically an extention of the "Cautions Breed Cautions" philosophy in NASCAR.