Is the Phoenix Metro area getting too large? (Glendale, Chandler: transplants, for sale)

[seattlecoming]

Originally Posted by _Charles_

I have seen a definate incremental decline in the quality of life in the Valley over the last 25 years.
Given my ties here, I have no desire to live anywhere else and still see Phoenix as OZ but yes things are not what they where and this is attributable to - too many folks moving here.

It would would be nice to see a shift in the Valley's economy away from real esate speculation and move in the direction of good jobs.

I also would like to see the Valley stop being a magnet for transient types - running from their personal problems expecting to find gold/cake here - but I do not have an answer for that one.

Excellent. A well-informed voice of reason you truly are. I agree with everything you said, except for the part about having no desire to live anywhere else. I'm moving out of Phoenix because this place is too big for its britches, has little to offer for a city its size, and the quality of life has drastically declined. Maybe if there were real big-city attractions to move here besides low-cost real estate and the weather there would be fewer transient types and a higher class of new arrivals.

[NorterraPhil]

Originally Posted by seattlecoming

Excellent. A well-informed voice of reason you truly are. I agree with everything you said, except for the part about having no desire to live anywhere else. I'm moving out of Phoenix because this place is too big for its britches, has little to offer for a city its size, and the quality of life has drastically declined. Maybe if there were real big-city attractions to move here besides low-cost real estate and the weather there would be fewer transient types and a higher class of new arrivals.

To me, I think the quality of life as you mentioned is declining because the cost of living especially in housing is so low that it attracts low-income individuals/families. As long as there's land to build cheap homes on and grow outwards, then the value of homes won't increase, thus, attracting low-income people like what Maryvale has become. How many Fortune 500 companies have a large presence that provide high paying jobs in Phoenix? I can only have a few (U.S. Airways, PetSmart, American Express, Intel, Boeing) which isn't acceptable in a metro area as large as Phoenix.

[Ritchie_az]

The problem I see is people saying that Phoenix should be like this city or that city--usually some place the person lived or visited. I've said before Phoenix is not San Francisco, S.F. is not Seattle, Seattle is not L.A., L.A. is not Chicago, Chicago is not Dallas, Dallas is not NYC, NYC is not Boston, Boston is not Houston, Houston is not San Diego, San Diego is not Philly, Philly is not Phoenix, etc. Each city is unique, all with "pluses" and "minuses", and none are perfect.
If one doesn't think Phoenix is "world class" enough for them, then he or she is free to leave and live in whatever "world class city" that person wishes to live in. Millions of people choose to live here by their own choice. Yes, millions of people choose to live in Phoenix instead of San Francisco, or Chicago, or L.A., or Seattle, etc. For one reason or another, they chose Phoenix instead of those other places.
So what sense does it make to try and be more like those cities the folks here chose not to live in? If one wants to live in those other cities so badly, go live there! The only person stopping you is you (and yet, something is stopping you...).
Is Phoenix "too large"? No, and it will grow at least triple in size--at least... and probably more. If you don't like that, you are free to find a smaller city. You have tons of choices. Heck, you don't even have to move far....
People choose to live here. People are choosing to move here every day. People are choosing to move here instead of all the other "world class cities" out there.
You chose to live here.
I don't get this "Phoenix should be more like..." nonsense....

[Goober13]

The Phoenix metro is an evolving area whereas more cosmopolitan cities such as San Francisco, Chicago, San Diego, Seattle, Philly,and Minneapolis/St Paul for example are older cities with established industries.

When I was growing up in Phoenix in the 70's the population was 1 and 1/2 million people and there were only 2 freeways. I-10 didn't exist except for south to Tucson and west of Goodyear until the middle 80's.

Phoenix has always been a service industry type of place, with no unions, no major manufacturing, and only a few aerospace companies like Motorola and Air Research, U-Haul and Armour-Dial until the 90's. Tourism and snowbirds was the economy.

Urban sprawl and the availablity of low priced land in which to develop, allowed the Phoenix metro area to grow to the over 4 million people here today. Because of the urban sprawl and affordable housing, the downtown area was not maintained as a hub for business and shopping, and a subway system and lifestyle that would sustain the urban core did not exist.

Lower income jobs fueled the growth and the inability for many working class Californians to buy affordable homes, and the desire for others to escape the cold of the Midwest and East fueled the growth. You don't have the old established union jobs and established corporate white collar jobs with higher earnings that build a solid cosmopolitan metro. Most of the affluent people have established family businesses, or moved here and brought their money with them, or have winter homes here.Many people who have moved here come from rural or smaller town environments, and work in jobs not requiring a college education.

The sprawl is a problem. It would have been far better to renovate homes in the Maryvale area IMO than expand to Queen Creek and Buckeye for example. That is what happened to the LA metro. People move to areas like Lancaster, Palmdale, Banning and Beaumont to buy an affordable home and then commute 50-80 miles or so to work in bumper to bumper traffic. Only in LA older areas are rehabbed and alive, where in Phoenix they die out and buildings sit abondoned.

But you also have to look at Phoenix as a metro area that almost tripled it's population in 30 years. Most places haven't grown that fast. The availablity of privately owned land contributed to the sprawl. Vegas isn't as bad given they have grown tremendously, because much of the surrounding land there is publicly owned.

I don't think it's getting to large, but the growth needs to be managed better, and central area properties need to be revamped, and not abandoned. The political structure in Maricopa County has always been corrupt, and conservative, and to be a forward thinking cosmopolitan metro, you need more open minded forward thinking leaders.Phoenix leaders were afraid of freeways and afraid of becoming an LA, let alone be able to have managed and organized growth.

[Java Jolt]

The crush hour traffic commute tells me everyday how large and crowded this metropolitan area is getting to be, and that more freeways and transit options are needed to meet the demand.

Until the economy starts booming again and the state's budget mess is fixed I don't really see that happening anytime soon.

[Bondurant]

Originally Posted by Goober13

The political structure in Maricopa County has always been corrupt, and conservative, and to be a forward thinking cosmopolitan metro, you need more open minded forward thinking leaders.Phoenix leaders were afraid of freeways and afraid of becoming an LA, let alone be able to have managed and organized growth.

Conservative has nothing to do with it. Liberalism worked wonders for Detroit, Cleveland, Baltimore, Oakland and other such places.

Take a jab at corruption, by all means, but leave conservatism out.

[_Charles_]

The dependance of the Valley's economy on real estate speculation and endless runaway sprawl needs to stop.
That would be a start.
I hold out hope that his crash would foster such a change but only time will tell.

[vagabundo94]

The area has become too large. The population in the Phoenix Valley is larger than any population that nature ever intended to support in this arid land.

There are simply way too many people drinking out of the same well than the well can support - and we have no viable human solutions to the limited natural resources in the area.

Living in the desert, as we do here in AZ, is simply unsustainable.

Yeah - it's too big.

[Nanny Goat]

Too big. Liked it when it was 1.9 milliion. It was big then, but more user friendly. I think it will only get larger out here. Even if small gains.

[Ritchie_az]

Originally Posted by vagabundo94

The area has become too large. The population in the Phoenix Valley is larger than any population that nature ever intended to support in this arid land.

There are simply way too many people drinking out of the same well than the well can support - and we have no viable human solutions to the limited natural resources in the area.

Living in the desert, as we do here in AZ, is simply unsustainable.

Yeah - it's too big.

Please show some facts to back this up. Or are you just speculating?