Church Coming... to Where? (Phoenix, Mesa: house, neighborhood, to live)

[apexin]

I would say that the Phoenix area more than any area I have visited already has many churches doing exactly what you are describing.

I echo the thoughts of the above poster about staying out of Gilbert. Gilbert has a very large LDS population and I would think it would be hard to try to convert them. If I were you, I would visit CCV and some of the other big mega churches here to see if your idea is really any different than what is already offered in one of these established places of worship.

I have a question for you. What is it about the Phoenix area that attracts the progressive, contemporary churches in the first place? Dont take these comments the wrong way, but is business that good for this type of church in Phoenix? I have never been to a town that had more huge non denominational churches that look like a Community College Campus. Is the popularity of Joel Olstien (sorry if I misspelled his name) the reason for these types of Churches taking off?

I can tell you this, my mother, a devout christian and life long Baptist, attended the Christmas presentation at CCV this past December and was not impressed. She thought it lacked substance and seemed to be heavy on Audio Visual/Computer graphics and light on preaching the gospel. I loved it, but then again, Im not what you would describe as a church going person in the first place so maybe thats why it was fun for me. I thought the best part was when the pastor told the crowd of almost 5,000 people, that they were not going to pass around the collection plate that night. Hallelujah brother!!!

Good luck in whatever you decide. I might not be a devout Christian, but I can appreciate drive and passion and wanting to make things better in this world.

[Forournewlife]

I would also like to second the notion that I would like to see Christians be more "Christian-like," in other words, "normal."

One thing that drove me away from churches and "organized religion" is how it is always about the money and becoming less and less about the people and the actual teachings of each respective deity.

I'd really like to see a normal church where Jesus' teachings are upheld. The whole helping others part, mainly. It annoys me to see people calling themselves "true christians" while turning their backs on people that need help.

But I digress. As others have said, if your church is what the people are looking for, people will travel. When I was younger, my family switched from our local Roman Catholic church because they told us (not asked) that we were to give 10% of our income as donations to the church every month and, essentially said, if we didn't we weren't welcome. We changed to another Roman Catholic church which was a 7 mile drive every Sunday morning.

[ChangeChurch]

Apexin you are speaking our language... To give you a little background on Change Church... we are birthed out of a movement of people wanting to see a Church started for the right reasons, and staying true to that. The gospel of Jesus Christ... not becoming consumed with money, butts in seats, and our own pride.

All of us have come from a background of abuse within the Church. Being told if we didn't produce a certain # of "giving units" our salaries would be dropped... totally lost focus of what the Church is.

Trust, our vision to "To reach people far from God and CHANGE their life through Christ." That will always and forever be our passion. Not money in plates or bragging rights of butts in seats.

With that said, one thing that attracted our group to Phoenix is a recent poll ranking Phoenix in the top 10 of most unchurched cities. A vision to reach new people sits well with that. We decided between NYC and Phoenix. Surprised you said there are so many Churches out that way already. Something must not be clicking. We plan to "Change" that... no pun intended.

What do you all think keeps a Church from making an impact in Phoenix?

[mfpd]

SE Gilbert has a Central Christian Church which is a very large church. They now have multiple campuses in the area. There are many vibrant Christian churches in the area. If you are looking for a place to have the greatest impact, I would suggest the Tempe area as I don't believe there is a strong, growing vibrant church in much of that area.

[ChangeChurch]

Thanks mfpd... appreciate the feedback... do you have any idea how many college students stick around in Tempe after graduation vs. move out for jobs?

[observer53]

Originally Posted by ChangeChurch

You guys are great... and we appreciate it. Any other suggestions are welcome too. Definitely looking to reach new people. Is Tempe more than just a college town?

Yes, it is. There's lots of people here who have no particular connection with the University. Once you get outside the immediate university area, it's a very nice suburb with no particular indication that ASU is even there. High quality of life, a more diverse community than most of the rest of the Valley.

What I have heard about CCV corresponds with the earlier post... heavy on entertainment and putting on a show, light on actual active participation in real worship. There really aren't that many of those nondenominational true "megachurches" here in the Valley, but there are a number of churches that are unaffiliated with any particular denomination. There is one large one (judging by the size of the buildings and the parking lot) close to Tempe, in Chandler (Ray and the 101 Fwy, if I recall correctly). Arizona Community Church in Tempe (founded by the founding pastor of Grace Community Church, which is still in Tempe as well) is doing very well. Grace Community was one of the original big nondenominational churches in this part of the Valley. It doesn't have the high profile it used to have, I don't think, but it's still active.

The Phoenix area, as indicated, a relatively unchurched area, but according to recent studies, the fastest growing group of people across the country, when people are asked about religious affiliation, is "none". So, it's not just here.

As far as how many ASU students stay, it's a huge school, with very large numbers of students who already lived in the area before college. I would imagine the university, or the alumni association, has some data on the question, I'd only be guessing. I'd guess that a larger percentage of the out of state students don't stay, but that IS just a guess.

I don't know what you mean by "what keeps a church from making an impact in Phoenix". This is the fifth largest city in the country, with a HUGE metro area geographically. The people here come from all sorts of religious/social/ethnic backgrounds. No ONE church is going to have an impact on a city/metro area this size that stands out to the exclusion of all the others. There are many churches that do have an impact, in large ways and small ones, in the way their members live out their faith. Don't get the idea that what you are proposing is so radically different from what many other churches (denominational or nondenominational) in the Valley are doing.

[apexin]

Maybe the stats are skewed out here due to the large Mega churches. Like I said, there are mega churches all over the valley with a huge number of followers. 5 Churches with 10,000 members vs. 200 smaller churches with 250 members. That would make Phoenix look ripe for the picking. Like I said though, come out and visit some of these mega churches and see what all the attraction is. No business, or church can survive without customers and you will need to meet a need not currently being met and from what I can tell, people our here love the Mega Church concept. To me, it seems to be more about socializing than worshiping God, but maybe that's what the West Coast requires to be effective.

NYC vs. Phoenix. No contest. Phoenix will win every time in cost of living and a more conservative population. You could start in a old K mart that has closed for the same cost as a 5,000 sq. ft. hole in NYC. Good choice there.

Again, good luck and make sure you are heavy on the "treat others the same as you want to be treated" and also please, please, please teach that Jesus was the biggest giver there ever was. We must all help those in need and not condemn them for the situation they are in.

Geez, all this from an admitted atheist.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by apexin

Maybe the stats are skewed out here due to the large Mega churches. Like I said, there are mega churches all over the valley with a huge number of followers. 5 Churches with 10,000 members vs. 200 smaller churches with 250 members. That would make Phoenix look ripe for the picking. Like I said though, come out and visit some of these mega churches and see what all the attraction is. No business, or church can survive without customers and you will need to meet a need not currently being met and from what I can tell, people our here love the Mega Church concept. To me, it seems to be more about socializing than worshiping God, but maybe that's what the West Coast requires to be effective.

NYC vs. Phoenix. No contest. Phoenix will win every time in cost of living and a more conservative population. You could start in a old K mart that has closed for the same cost as a 5,000 sq. ft. hole in NYC. Good choice there.

Again, good luck and make sure you are heavy on the "treat others the same as you want to be treated" and also please, please, please teach that Jesus was the biggest giver there ever was. We must all help those in need and not condemn them for the situation they are in.

Geez, all this from an admitted atheist.

If someone's attending a megachurch, they are not among the unchurched or "nones" any more. I'm not sure there are five with 10,000 plus members, but I'll assume that there are. Even 5,000, which is an oft-used minimum number for a megachurch, would be a very large church here. I agree with the above poster, come visit them and see if you are really going to do anything they or other larger congregations are not already doing.

[LocoAZnative]

Originally Posted by ChangeChurch

Thanks Observer53...

We are looking at Gilbert and Tempe... which do you think has a more current vibe and more young professionals?

We are visiting in May, any other places to check?

Please stay out of Tempe all we need is some crazy biblethumpers trying to convert everyone. Go to Mesa and fight with the mormons.

[ChangeChurch]

Apexin and Observer53... thanks for the info again... we have some relationships with current churches in AZ are are excited to check everything out! Apexin, especially love your perspective coming from your faith background... or lack there of... LOL. Would love to talk further.

Observer53 you are very wise and seem to have a strong grip on the areas... might message you more detailed questions... don't want to waste your time though.

LocoAZnative, that was hilarious. Look forward to visiting Tempe more now than ever thanks to you... see you all soon!