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Old 03-30-2011, 10:08 PM
 
Location: AZ.. previously UK
42 posts, read 161,520 times
Reputation: 27

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised View Post
So let's say I got a job offer to move to AZ. I'd turn it down because of the schools. So while Intel makes decisions on moving to AZ based off of the education investment, so do people individuals who value education. Does AZ really want to turn away people who demand a high quality of education??
Before I moved here, I had heard of Arizona's reputation regarding the education system. I was naturally concerned, but tried to do some research and concluded it would be ok. It didn't help that finding out about schools when overseas is obviously really hard to do. Only one out of numerous schools got back to me in answer to my queries and greatschools website only gives a tiny glimpse into a school situation.
We are distinctly dissatisfied with our 6mths experience so far I will say, (though pre school is a different kettle of fish, superb!) and that is allowing a generous dollop of acceptance that things are going to be different.
Our decision to locate was based on that we have to go where work is, the alternative was very bleak, but the education is one area we have to address.
We plan to buy our own home later this year and I feel we have one more shot at getting the school right. If anyone has any wise words on schools in the Chandler area (as looking to move from Gilbert) am happy to receive Personal messages.
In my very first week of moving I remember a lady telling me to watch out, "Arizona is great for their high fives, but when it comes to writing and math, they are below most States." It's not the kind of news I hoped to hear

 
Old 03-30-2011, 10:43 PM
 
Location: AZ
1,046 posts, read 3,475,983 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by Journey2 View Post
In my very first week of moving I remember a lady telling me to watch out, "Arizona is great for their high fives, but when it comes to writing and math, they are below most States." It's not the kind of news I hoped to hear
If the Senate budget passes this year....AZ will have cut 1.4Billion in K-12 funding the past 3 years. Higher education is just as bad.
Arizonans passed a proposition last year, prop. 100, to tax ourselves an extra 1% in sales tax to help support (mostly) education..........I guess we see how that's going. I wonder what is going to happen in 2013 when it runs out?......
 
Old 03-31-2011, 05:10 AM
 
9,682 posts, read 11,076,579 times
Reputation: 8429
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondurant View Post
Spending isn't always the answer. John Stossel had a brilliant special called Dumb In America about our horrid public school systems. Money hardly solves anything. My favorite part was the bare bones private schools that operated with less money than public schools, paid teachers more and turned out better educated kids. You can watch it on YouTube.

It's not about how much is spent but how it's spent.

I talked about that. Many times districts spend A LOT more than other areas because the schools are attempting to become the parents. They hire full time police, psychologists, several assistant principals etc. The districts have all kinds of special funding for breakfasts, pregnancy seminars with built in daycare etc. What can that cost??? In Minneapolis, it can run over $16K per student! The results are dismal because the family culture doesn't care. Hell, spend $80K per student and attach a teacher per student and buy them a dedicated computer per year and see what that gets you. While the grades will go up, some cultures will do better on $3K per year. Unfortunately, I don't think the politicians are able to grasp this easy concept.

Guess what caliber of teachers want to be baby sitters and worry about school violence. Do you think the good ones go there??? By the way I'm not a teacher.

The solution isn't to automatically toss more money towards a broken culture (actually they need to be cut off of the social system so they cannot afford to have more Kids). The solution is to cut out jobs that are overpriced babysitters and let those districts sink or swim.

Now lets say you want to twist a report to "prove" that more money doesn't help or you are too blind to see what is going on. I'd go right out to some schools in New York, Minneapolis and St. Paul, Milwaukee, etc. OF COURSE a private school can crush the achievements of a school that spends $16K. Private schools are filled with families that expect performance. But let's try this experiment. Let's compare two private schools; one that spends $4K a student compared with another that spends $12K. I know which one I want my Kid to attend. Or a middle class public school filled with kids eager to learn. Do you think $4K is enough?? Like I said, I see what $9200 got me in MN. I would not send my Kids to a school that spends a measly $4K per student unless I had to.

The districts have a problem: the federal government mandates things and they won't pay for them. That syphons dollars off of families that care and it dummies down the middle class education. I guess what I am saying is there is a point where money correlates to quality of education when comparing the same group of Kids. If you spend more on people who don't care you will get dismal results. People who don't care (because of mandates) cost more so they through the overall correlation out of whack! But cultures that have expectations trump money. Now if you spend more money on cultures that care, there will be a correlation on how much you spend until the Law of Diminishing Returns kicks in. I want my kids to be studying and competing with kids that are expected to perform. I definitely want them to go to a school that is adequately funded. Sorry, $4K doesn't cut it.

Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 03-31-2011 at 05:32 AM..
 
Old 03-31-2011, 07:08 AM
 
Location: Camphost in Durand, IL
245 posts, read 695,849 times
Reputation: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondurant View Post
Spending isn't always the answer. John Stossel had a brilliant special called Dumb In America about our horrid public school systems. Money hardly solves anything. My favorite part was the bare bones private schools that operated with less money than public schools, paid teachers more and turned out better educated kids. You can watch it on YouTube.

It's not about how much is spent but how it's spent.
This is the Stossel program:
YouTube - Stupid in America
 
Old 03-31-2011, 08:06 AM
 
183 posts, read 548,316 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by phxgreenfire View Post
The difference was pretty negligible though. The City of Phoenix ranked .3 percentage points higher than metro Phoenix. I think the fact that Phoenix proper jumped 14 ranks higher compared to other cities indicates that more educated people in a few other cities live in neighboring cities/suburbs. In any case, collectively they affect the entire area. I think if a higher percentage of college-educated people lived in the Phoenix area, it would seem a bit more attractive to corporate heads.
Good point
I concur
 
Old 03-31-2011, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Avondale and Tempe, Arizona
2,852 posts, read 4,487,049 times
Reputation: 2561
Queen Jan, Royal Russell, and all the other knuckleheads in the legislature could have easily made cuts to their own lavish benefits and slashed all the loopholes and kickbacks.

But no, they slash AHCCCS for the working poor and education for our children.

At the same time they wasted time on clownish legislation like flat taxes, guns, abortion, and countless immigration bills.

They don't care about jobs or our national reputation, just about their own right-wing viewpoints.

What are they trying to do, turn this place into the Appalachia of the west?
 
Old 03-31-2011, 09:01 AM
 
Location: In a city within a state where politicians come to get their PHDs in Corruption
2,907 posts, read 2,058,507 times
Reputation: 4478
Take look around this board and see what type of people want to move to Phoenix and everything shall become clear. Then take a scan of the boards in LA, San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, NYC, Boston and see what priorities look like for people trying to move to those metros. You can't have a quality public education when the majority of the populace Phoenix metro attracts lists their top priorities as weather and cheap houses.
 
Old 03-31-2011, 09:16 AM
 
1,169 posts, read 5,255,143 times
Reputation: 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by tolovefromANFIELD View Post
You can't have a quality public education when the majority of the populace Phoenix metro attracts lists their top priorities as weather and cheap houses.
Many of the folks thinking of moving to Phoenix have tried the more expensive cities you list and have decided to try something different.

As has been pointed out several times in this thread, getting a quality education for your kids is possible anywhere when the parents refuse to accept failure.
 
Old 04-01-2011, 12:04 AM
 
10,719 posts, read 20,244,888 times
Reputation: 10021
60 Minutes recently aired a segment that showed that many American companies set up companies in foreign countries to lower their taxes. That proves the real motivation for companies to relocate headquarters. Basically, it proved a point, that companies care about the bottom line first and foremost and not public schools. The article below paraphrases the 60 Minutes episode.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2382706,00.asp

As much I hate to see our state slash the education budget, if our goal is to create more jobs, we need to do more to cut taxes and encourage companies to move here. Without jobs, all of this is immaterial. Education will then follow.

While I'm not a fan of the governor in general, she is on the right track with regard to her plan to improve the state. Arizona is lowering their corporate tax rate by 2% which most definitely will cause companies to move here. If we could eliminate the state income tax and raise sales tax, we would create even more jobs. The bill would give Arizona the 5th lowest corporate tax rate in the nation.

http://www.maricopagop.org/2011/02/15/bill-would-give-az-fifth-lowest-corporate-tax-rate-in-nation/ (broken link)

Sorry but it's no secret that great public schools are found in affluent areas in which their high property taxes fund their local public schools. Great schools are not magically created by some universal state policy. It doesn't work that way.
 
Old 04-01-2011, 04:55 AM
 
9,682 posts, read 11,076,579 times
Reputation: 8429
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
While I'm not a fan of the governor in general, she is on the right track with regard to her plan to improve the state.
Be careful what you wish for. It looks like Chandler spends $6800 per student and this is before the proposed budget cuts. See http://www.azcentral.com/community/chandler/articles/2011/03/16/20110316chandler-school-spending0316.html

That's already thousands below what most MN school districts spend even in lower middle class districts. Having the "best" schools in a state like AZ with a low overall rankings might not be good enough.

Many companies with low margins need to focus on low corperate tax rates. Others with higher margins prefer an educated workforce and culture (R&D atmosphere, etc). If you want proof, consider Massachusetts or MN. So the question is do you want jobs that pluck chickens like Arkansas or states like MN that make medical devices.

I guess what I'm saying is there is a balance. Because if you go after the low margin businesses, you won't be able to compete with foreign countries.
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