New tallest building FINALLY coming to Phoenix! (Tempe, Taylor: dorms, theater)

[Magnum Mike]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

HX Guy, thank you for posting this. I have been trying to keep up with the planned upward development of downtown Phoenix, as well as the existing construction projects which are under way.

I'm hoping that the entire CityScape project goes through as planned, and isn't delayed by cost overruns, material shortages, or f.a.r.t.s ... which is an acronym I came up with (standing for fanatically against relatively tall structures).

Speaking of which: do you know what's going on with the planned 39 story W Hotel across the street from United Airways Center? It was supposed to begin construction last year, but is delayed (as usual) by a lawsuit started by some Chinese protectionist group. Is that hotel ever going to be built, or will it be yet another vision down the drain because of these pathetic protestors?!

Hi Valley Native - United Airways Center? Wasn't it US Airways Center? When was the name changed?

That is pathetic VN, I thought the W Hotel developer was going to leave the structure in place to satisfy the protectionist group who are trying to save something with no significant historical value (??) - You can't win with these people!

[HX_Guy]

The W Hotel has fizzled down pretty much. Yes they are still in court over the Sun Merc buildings, but really, that's isn't the problem. If the market was hot right now, I'm positive something would be worked out.

I wouldn't expect anything to happen with that project anytime soon. Maybe in the future, a few years down the road, but it's not really something to watch right now.

Right now, there are still a handful of hopeful projects to keep an eye on.
The two most likely are CityScape of course and the 26 story 383' One Central Park East office tower. Those seem to be moving forward and both should break ground this fall.

There is a hotel proposal for directly east of 15 E Monroe (former Valley National Bank, built 1931, which itself is being turned into a boutique hotel). The proposal states it will be a 43 story hotel tower...we'll see, it's in the very very early stages.

Everything else in the works are residential towers...there is...

Copper Pointe: 28 story residential at 3rd St and Fillmore.
The Jet: 2 towers, apartment rentals 2nd and Fillmore.
Omega: 32 story residential condos, 2nd and Adams

Those three seem likely, but I doubt all three will go up. Maybe we'll get one of them, two if we're lucky.

A big part will be the response to the construction that is happening now. 44 Monroe is still under construction and I'm not sure how many units are sold, but The Summit at Copper Square which will be finished soon has sold 125 of their 156 units before the thing is even finished, which is a good sign. If these buildings fill up and there is demand for more, I'm sure developers will make it happen.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

The W Hotel has fizzled down pretty much. Yes they are still in court over the Sun Merc buildings, but really, that's isn't the problem. If the market was hot right now, I'm positive something would be worked out.

This puzzles me. I could somewhat understand the flizzling if it was yet another condo tower. But the W is a hotel project (something downtown Phoenix desperately needs more of). Even when the Sheraton is finished, the downtown area will still be lagging in the number of hotel rooms!

I really hope the W Hotel is built, and not postponed or scrapped like so many other highrise proposals have been. Downtown Phoenix needs more height ... not just 20 story buildings ... but more TALL skyscrapers that truly define our skyline (40, 50, and 60 stories). Also, I think for now there are enough condo towers planned. I say keep building upward, but variate it to more office towers & hotels to lure in more corporate types, conventions, and tourists.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I really hope the W Hotel is built, and not postponed or scrapped like so many other highrise proposals have been. Downtown Phoenix needs more height ... not just 20 story buildings ... but more TALL skyscrapers that truly define our skyline (40, 50, and 60 stories). Also, I think for now there are enough condo towers planned. I say keep building upward, but variate it to more office towers & hotels to lure in more corporate types, conventions, and tourists.

I agree that downtown needs to be built up, but totally disagree about the skyline. Skylines are extremely overrated-- they mean nothing. Absolutely buptkiss. Especially in a western city like Phoenix where the real skyline is the Sierra Estrella, White Tanks, South Mountain, Camelback Mtn, and the Superstitions. It's how the street looks at the ground level that matters, and that decides if people will turn it into a pedestrian friendly place. Horizontal density, getting each square block filled in within the core downtown area, is much more important than vertical density. Right now downtown is not one continuous space, it is a bunch of blobs here and there. A whole bunch of twenty story buildings surrounding the current high rise core would be a wonderful thing. Heck, even 5-10 story buildings filling in those vacant lots would do the trick. Right now, downtown is surrounded by squat one story structures. Anything is better than what we have now.

[HX_Guy]

I agree vegaspilgrim. While tall buildings are great and draw attention themselves, we need more on the human scale. There are so many dead zones downtown that it makes the whole place feel too large and spread out. Each of those lots should have something on them in the sense of retail, restaurants, and entertainment. I would rather have five 10 story buildings then one 50 story building at this point. We need to fill in all those empy parcels and bring more people in.

As for the W Hotel, I think a big part of it were the condo units...I don't remember how many there were, but I'm sure that part of it would have helped to offset the cost of the hotel since unlike condos where you will make you money back right away...it's going to take a while with a hotel.

It is unfortunate though, the proposed spot for the W is literally right next to US Airways Arena and Chase Field. It would be the premier #1 choice for visiting teams and fans I would assume and would be filled up frequently I'm sure.

The CityScape project will also have a hotel though, and that is right around the same area so maybe that is having an impact on things as well.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

I agree that downtown needs to be built up, but totally disagree about the skyline. Skylines are extremely overrated-- they mean nothing. Absolutely buptkiss. Especially in a western city like Phoenix where the real skyline is the Sierra Estrella, White Tanks, South Mountain, Camelback Mtn, and the Superstitions.

Sorry, but I think most of these mountains are UGLY ... with perhaps the exception of Camelback Mountain and the Superstitions. The majority of the mountains surrounding Phoenix are nothing like the beautiful snowcapped mountains which are found right near Seattle (a city with a tall skyline). Even some of the mountains to the north of L.A., Las Vegas, and Tucson are more scenic than these brown, treeless, snowless rock piles!

A tall skyline would ENHANCE Phoenix's image. I keep hearing that more highrises would block out the sun. Big deal! Don't we get enough sun around here?! Another excuse for not going tall is the proximity of downtown to Sky Harbor. Well, that's bogus in my opinion because other cities have built skyscrapers right near the airport. Look at San Diego.

I realize skyscrapers and dense urban environments aren't for everybody ... but Phoenix being the nation's fifth largest city NEEDS to grow taller and become more dense. So those people who don't like it should move to a smaller place where there are more open spaces. There are still plenty of locations like that remaining in AZ.

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

While tall buildings are great and draw attention themselves, we need more on the human scale. There are so many dead zones downtown that it makes the whole place feel too large and spread out. Each of those lots should have something on them in the sense of retail, restaurants, and entertainment.

I agree with that. Part of being a great city with a dense urban core is a plentiful mix of of tall buildings as well as an active array of nightclubs, restaurants, shopping, etc. But tall buildings should really be kept separate from the entertainment district. There are plans to turn the old Warehouse District into an entertainment mecca. The area from Jefferson Street northward through the Central Corridor should be almost entirely vertical (a mix of condo towers, hotels, and office buildings).

I would rather have five 10 story buildings then one 50 story building at this point. We need to fill in all those empy parcels and bring more people in.

Agreed, except for the part of wanting more mid rises than highrises. How about BOTH? As I stated, the downtown area starting at Jefferson should be vertical ... not all 50 story towers, but a mix of 10 & 15 story buildings along with the 40, 50, and 60 story ones. That's what makes a true big city skyline.

[hannap.]

>>>>>>

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Sorry, but I think most of these mountains are UGLY ... with perhaps the exception of Camelback Mountain and the Superstitions. The majority of the mountains surrounding Phoenix are nothing like the beautiful snowcapped mountains which are found right near Seattle (a city with a tall skyline). Even some of the mountains to the north of L.A., Las Vegas, and Tucson are more scenic than these brown, treeless, snowless rock piles!

Boy are you right! Phoenix's city sky line resembles Salt Lake City's but SLC has much prettier mountain back drops. These around here are puky ugly-brown. Who needs flat tiled-roof communities against desert mountains when there could be some nice tall buildings going up and beautifying our sky line?

[Valley Native]

Just because some of us are interested in highrise construction, and the progress that is being made, doesn't necessarily mean that we're in the planning, zoning, or development business. I personally would rather see the nation's fifth largest city look and act more like a tall vertical city like it should be ... instead of the flat, sprawled out mess that it became during the last 20 years or so.

Those of you who hold your mountain views sacred, I'd suggest buying a highrise condo, and then you'll have all the mountain views you could ask for!

[KidA]

you mean 14th largest metropolitan statistical area.

[ptbrennan]

If this project moves forward and is successful, we will likely see plenty of other urban developments in downtown PHX. They will likely range in size from 3 or 4 stories up to full-fledged high rises, and it will be a function of land value and developers' budgets.

What's important here is that we are finally seeing a complete mixed-use development. It even includes a grocery store, which is usually missing from these types of plans. I find that fact alone quite alluring.

As for schools, the residents of these condos will probably be either young people, empty nesters, or able to afford nearby private schools.

And we are not losing much by building over Patriot Square. Walk through there on any given afternoon and you will likely be the only non-homeless person or police officer. As long as the developer creates a replacement public space they will sufficiently mitigate these concerns. But what about the amphitheater?