New tallest building FINALLY coming to Phoenix! (Scottsdale, Peoria: buying, construction)

[Boatdrinks]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Yes, I AM being serious, Boatdrinks. I'm a strong supporter of highrise development for many reasons too numerous to name. If the Phoenix area wasn't so big, I wouldn't be in favor of vertical development so much. However, since we are now one of the largest cities (and metro areas) in the nation, it's only sensible to build more upward and less outward.

Besides, there's going to come a time when we will be landlocked and won't have any further room to keep sprawling. When that time comes, we'll have no choice except to build upward as long as the growth continues. Tempe is already at that point, BTW.

Sorry - I should have been more clear...I wasn't sure if you were serious about the negativity towards families with "unruly kids" who "mooch tax dollars looking for free public schools."

I'm actually very supportive of vertical development too and I completley agree with you that it's necessary in a large city like Phoenix. I think Cityscape and the other projects planned are great and I wish they'd do more.

It was the kids/schools comment that threw me. But your clarification that you were serious about that is helpful. Thanks.

I'm assuming, based on your comments, that you don't have any kids. When/if you do have them, which private school will you be sending them to? I didn't think there was a wide selection in that area. Also, I'm curious if you happen to know tuition costs for the downtown private school you'd send your kids to...my research has shown that they run well over 8K/yr per child. Have you found some that aren't as expensive?

[Boatdrinks]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

They are fairly close. CityScape will be at Central and Washington while the medical campus is around the area of 7th St and Van Buren, roughly 3/4 of a mile away. Someone would be able to hop on the light rail at Central and Washington and take it 1/4 mile north to Central and Van Buren, but then would need to walk 1/2 mile east. 1/2 mile isn't bad...but when it's 110 out in the summer, it might not be so pleasant. There are buses and shuttles that would take someone the whole route Im sure.

Thanks! This is very helpful!

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by Boatdrinks

Sorry - I should have been more clear...I wasn't sure if you were serious about the negativity towards families with "unruly kids" who "mooch tax dollars looking for free public schools."

Yep, serious 100%. I just strongly believe that if somebody is going to reproduce, he/she should be fully responsible for the child's upbringing ... financially and otherwise. That includes paying for their education and health care themselves without burdening the taxpayers. If they can't afford it entirely on their own means, they shouldn't be having kids. But this can be a whole new topic.

Originally Posted by Boatdrinks

I'm actually very supportive of vertical development too and I completley agree with you that it's necessary in a large city like Phoenix. I think Cityscape and the other projects planned are great and I wish they'd do more.

I hope CityScape goes through as fully planned, and I hope the protestors who are upset about Patriot's Park are completely ignored. Matter of fact, I wish they'd leave town, and take their pathetic whining with them!

They're one of the reasons so many of these projects have failed to get started. These f.a.r.t.s. (standing for fanatically against relatively tall structures) are small in numbers, but highly vocal in their opposition. Unfortunately, they've been ALLOWED to be too influential on these projects in the past. Look what happened with Trump's proposed tower on Camelback.

Originally Posted by Boatdrinks

It was the kids/schools comment that threw me. But your clarification that you were serious about that is helpful. Thanks.

I'm assuming, based on your comments, that you don't have any kids. When/if you do have them, which private school will you be sending them to? I didn't think there was a wide selection in that area. Also, I'm curious if you happen to know tuition costs for the downtown private school you'd send your kids to...my research has shown that they run well over 8K/yr per child. Have you found some that aren't as expensive?

Actually, you're right. I don't have kids, and don't plan on having any. My sister and I went to a private school during our grade school years (Rancho Solano), which we liked very much. The quality of education in a private school is FAR superior than anything in a publicly funded environment.

Not sure what the tuition is these days for private education ... but you're correct in guessing that it would be quite expensive. Still, I think that if the public system would be dismantled as it should, all taxpayers would receive a substantial break, and perhaps more parents would be able to afford private schools. You'd see the graduation & literacy rates drastically improve. I realize I'm probably in the minority on this issue ... but that's the conservative Libertarian in me.

[ptbrennan]

In the past downtown PHX projects, we haven't seen anything nearly as ambitious in the area of bringing residents and hotel guest to the downtown. All of these developments will presumably play off of each other and provide the critical mass necessary for the retail/restaurants and other services. That said, I'm not so sure that many students will be living in buildings like Cityscape, which is fine. It just means that affordable student housing will have to be added to the mix, as HX_Guy already demonstrated with the pictures of the dorms under development.

[HX_Guy]

New renderings are out for CityScape and dirt is also moving on the site. No official groundbreaking yet but it seems to be going in the right direction.

[CheyDee]

Am I the only one who thinks this may not be a great idea, due to the state of current events? Building a brand new high rise, which in essence will scream, "Look at me!", and will house thousands of people at any given time, seems to me to be in poor judgment.

[Magnum Mike]

Originally Posted by CheyDee

Am I the only one who thinks this may not be a great idea, due to the state of current events? Building a brand new high rise, which in essence will scream, "Look at me!", and will house thousands of people at any given time, seems to me to be in poor judgment.

"State of current events" - Can you be more specific with "current events"? If you're talking about the slump in the real estate market, that slump will not last forever, and compared to other cities, Phoenix is doing a little better in that aspect.

Many developers will build during a slump period while costs are low, and when the next real estate boom comes along, they'll reap the benefits.

[CheyDee]

Originally Posted by Magnum Mike

"State of current events" - Can you be more specific with "current events"? If you're talking about the slump in the real estate market, that slump will not last forever, and compared to other cities, Phoenix is doing a little better in that aspect.

Many developers will build during a slump period while costs are low, and when the next real estate boom comes along, they'll reap the benefits.

I apologize for any confusion. I was referring to 9/11 and the fact that we are still at war.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Yep, serious 100%. I just strongly believe that if somebody is going to reproduce, he/she should be fully responsible for the child's upbringing ... financially and otherwise. That includes paying for their education and health care themselves without burdening the taxpayers. If they can't afford it entirely on their own means, they shouldn't be having kids. But this can be a whole new topic.



I hope CityScape goes through as fully planned, and I hope the protestors who are upset about Patriot's Park are completely ignored. Matter of fact, I wish they'd leave town, and take their pathetic whining with them!

They're one of the reasons so many of these projects have failed to get started. These f.a.r.t.s. (standing for fanatically against relatively tall structures) are small in numbers, but highly vocal in their opposition. Unfortunately, they've been ALLOWED to be too influential on these projects in the past. Look what happened with Trump's proposed tower on Camelback.



Actually, you're right. I don't have kids, and don't plan on having any. My sister and I went to a private school during our grade school years (Rancho Solano), which we liked very much. The quality of education in a private school is FAR superior than anything in a publicly funded environment.

Not sure what the tuition is these days for private education ... but you're correct in guessing that it would be quite expensive. Still, I think that if the public system would be dismantled as it should, all taxpayers would receive a substantial break, and perhaps more parents would be able to afford private schools. You'd see the graduation & literacy rates drastically improve. I realize I'm probably in the minority on this issue ... but that's the conservative Libertarian in me.

I would guess that the conservative libertarian leanings only extends to being critical of government handouts that do not benefit your pet causes. If the government were not supporting the nonsense directly with tax dollars (light rail) and multi-million dollar tax subsidies to developers, the whole city-scape (and all the other ill-conceived downtown projects we have had to dig into our pockets for over the years) would fall on its financially indefensible butt. Get government out and let the market decide how Phoenix should develop.

[nomorearizona]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Yes, yes, yes! My kind of crowd! What we don't need is more people with large families moving in, bringing their unruly kids, and looking for FREE public schools & to mooch off the taxpayers' dollars. I find that many highrise condo dwellers are educated professionals & often childless ... the type we need MORE of in this area. Another benefit to going vertical!

Valley Native, you are so dead on with this remark. I believe that all subsidies should be stopped and people should only pay for what they use:

- Stop paying for schools with property taxes and charge parents directly. It's wrong for us to pay for some other kid's education. The positive impact that this would have on the economy would be astounding.

- Get rid of the extortionist car registration fees in Arizona and make all highways toll roads. That way people only pay for what they use. Why the hell should I pay a four-figure registration every year when I work from home and don't even commute?

- In cities that have public transportation, cut off the tax dollars and raise the prices. Let the commuters pay for it. Stop taking tax money from people who don't use the train to pay for it.

And so on and so on. Our tax system is oppressive and burdensome and it's wrong for people to pay for things they don't use.

Aren't these protestors pathetic? They want to save a so called park that is an eyesore, and of no value at all to the city.

This kind of nonsense is a Phoenix tradition. They're not pro-park, they're ANTI-development. Have you noticed that Phoenicians protest *EVERY* new development or building? I think they're bored and have nothing else to do and since their lives have no meaning they jump on silly causes like this (exactly like left-wing Hollywood stars do) and now that Arizona has essentially become a blue state it's full of liberals who think all business is bad and evil.

What really floored me was when that community organization successfully defeated Trump's tower at the Camelback/24th St area. I drove around the neighborhood where those people live and it was GHETTO. They really shot themselves in the foot by defeating that project because it might have reversed the trend and saved their neighborhood from degrading into gang-land (it already looks like it) but now they'll get what they deserve.