New tallest building FINALLY coming to Phoenix! (2009, houses)

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

*zip zip*

Ok, got my flame suit on. Here goes...

I dont see what the big deal is. Its just another condo building, thats not particularly striking in design, thats gonna attract more and more newcomers to an already overburdened part of the country. I could see being excited about a sculpture park, or a observation deck, or a museum/aquarium of sorts, but another condo complex?!?! Cmon, are Phoenicians really that hard up about new building projects? Especially ones that are not unique whatsoever? Put that building in NYC or Boston or Chicago and noone would bat an eye, theyd probably even gripe about it. Not to mention the fact that most of you guys think its already overcrowded there, so why welcome another building that will not bring anything exciting to downtown, attract more traffic, and block views that you all seem to crave so much? Doesnt make sense to me. Not trying to offend, Im just genuinely curious...

Flame away.

An aquarium! THAT'S what I think they could use here. Anything with water would be fabulous! I'm just shocked over how little this 5th largest city (?) in the nation lacks as far as development for the masses goes when it comes to education.

No wonder people get on our case about the lack of "culture." A really nice large art museum, historical museum, science museum and an aquarium all in the same general area (like DC) would be awesome! How about it city council members???

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Just because some of us are interested in highrise construction, and the progress that is being made, doesn't necessarily mean that we're in the planning, zoning, or development business. I personally would rather see the nation's fifth largest city look and act more like a tall vertical city like it should be ... instead of the flat, sprawled out mess that it became during the last 20 years or so.

Those of you who hold your mountain views sacred, I'd suggest buying a highrise condo, and then you'll have all the mountain views you could ask for!

I feel that Phoenix and the surrounding areas are blessed with mountain views in nearly every direction. With the city becoming so large and built out though, it's not realistic to expect to have a mountain view available everywhere. However, what I think is GREAT about the high rises, as it means less building out into the desert. Man, it's crazy hot here 24/7.
It used to be where it felt downright cold at night -- even in the summer. Not so anymore, which I think is what makes tolerating this city hard to do now. I wish someone had started building UP years ago so we would at least have a place to escape to right outside the city without it taking an hour or two north to get to. I remember living here in the mid 70's and it was necessary to wear a sweatshirt at night. *sigh* Those were the days....

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Alright...let me give my input on all of this...

Steve-o - Yes, you are right, this project in NYC or Chicago probably wouldn't attract nearly any attention. But Phoenix isn't NYC or Chicago. Those places already have what is proposed here. Have they always? No...they had to start somewhere too and they have what, a 100+ year head start on Phoenix when it comes to high-rises and downtown life? This project is unique when it comes to downtown because of all the components it brings...the grocery, the bookstore, the retail, the restaurants. People complain that there is nothing to do downtown after a game...well, this will bring at least some activities and places.

Phoenix is anything but overcrowded. Phoenix has a density of 3,077.6 people per sq mi. Compare that to 66,940/sq mi of Manhattan, 15,834/sq mi of San Francisco, 12,604/sq mi of Chicago, and 8,567/sq mi of L.A.
We are not anywhere near those numbers.

Silverbear - I believe Phoenix has left the notion behind that one single project will turn downtown around. That is the major difference I see with this revival attempt compared to others. This CityScape project isn't the only one on the table...the ASU campus is rolling along, the convention center and hotel, a couple of high-rise residential, light rail and so on. These are things that will not only bring people downtown, but also have people living downtown. Arizona Center was basically a mall built downtown...but it had no residential component for people to actually live there and it was somewhat isolated. The thing is, one project at a time, and soon enough you'll have a mass of projects that play off each other. You can catch a game at Chase Field, stop by CityScape at a restaurant, then go catch a movie at the Arizona Center. Each project is starting to have a roll and gives you more options instead of just one thing.
Look at other cities...has NYC always had everything from the very beginning? I doubt it...but with 100+ years of project after project, it's now one big mass.

As for "unique" vs "suburban chains", I think both are needed. If I lived in one of the downtown condos, maybe I would want to go to a PF Changs once in a while and I definitely wouldn't want to drive to Peoria or Scottsdale to do that. I do think they need some unique restaurants and retailers as well, to get people from the suburbs to go there, but the chains aren't bad either.

As for why would someone go downtown when you can get a lot of the same stuff in the suburbs, it's all preference. Sure if you are just wanting to go grab a bite to eat and that's it, then the corner Applebees might be better...but I for one sometimes like to make a day of it. Walk around a bit on foot outside, pop in and out of some stores, do some people watching, grab something to eat.
Now all the stuff I said an be done at a suburb mall right? But to me, it's not the same. Yes Kierland Commons gives you an urban feel while "inside", but I hate turning the corner and seeing a sea of parking lots. I like walking from block to block, cars passing by, people walking by, sidewalk cafes and so on...an urban environment that the suburbs cannot give you.

I agree with everything you said. However, I would like to add that Phoenix could sure use an underground transportation system. The thing they are working on now is just too limited I'm afraid.

[Magnum Mike]

Originally Posted by CheyDee

I apologize for any confusion. I was referring to 9/11 and the fact that we are still at war."

Thanks for clarifying that.

I don't think we have to worry too much about anything like the events of September 11th ever happening again. After that dreadful day in 2001, trust me, we all learned a lesson since then, and there will be plenty of passengers that will teach any potential terrorists, that try to hijack an airliner, a very painful lesson. Not to mention the fact that there are many safeguards that'll prevent things like that from ever happening again.

[CheyDee]

I would very much like to believe that, but am unconvinced. There is also more to terrorism than airplanes being flown into buildings and multiple attempts at massive destruction have been and still are being made. Just one source of info is the FBI's website. (I am new here and would have to review the TOS again to see if it is okay to post the links, but I would be happy to send them to you or anyone else via private email.)

This is not to say I think we should be paranoid, but I do not know that it is prudent to build something which may hold a stadium's worth of people or more and perhaps even worse, advertise its presence.

Thank you for your reply. Yours, (and the lack of anyone else's), helps to answer my question. I sincerely pray I am the one who is wrong.

[ptbrennan]

Originally Posted by londonbarcelona

An aquarium! THAT'S what I think they could use here. Anything with water would be fabulous! I'm just shocked over how little this 5th largest city (?) in the nation lacks as far as development for the masses goes when it comes to education.

No wonder people get on our case about the lack of "culture." A really nice large art museum, historical museum, science museum and an aquarium all in the same general area (like DC) would be awesome! How about it city council members???

Do you really want to see an aquarium here? If we get one of those, then I demand that other major cities develop a desert botanical garden and Hohokam ruins. Plus, I expect to see Pioneer museums and dude ranches in the northeast. Forget about regional qualities! We must keep up with the joneses.

But back to the residential tower...... Good idea.

[johnfthorley]

Who really cares. If you wanna live in a tower then live there, if not then get a house. End of discussion.

[Steve-o]

Originally Posted by ptbrennan

Do you really want to see an aquarium here? If we get one of those, then I demand that other major cities develop a desert botanical garden and Hohokam ruins. Plus, I expect to see Pioneer museums and dude ranches in the northeast. Forget about regional qualities! We must keep up with the joneses.

But back to the residential tower...... Good idea.

Most large cities DO have botanical gardens, some with very large sections dedicated to desert flora. Just thought Id throw that out there....

And besides, why would you "demand" that we have one?

[ptbrennan]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

Most large cities DO have botanical gardens, some with very large sections dedicated to desert flora. Just thought Id throw that out there....

And besides, why would you "demand" that we have one?

Sorry, that would be an example of my typical knee-jerk sarcastic response to people who complain that there's nothing to do here, when in fact we have many regional attractions that include museums and other educational opportunities. I was once snapped at by someone who I deeply respect because I was trying to compare Phoenix with places like SF and NY for their "cultural" attractions. I was immediately reminded that I hadn't even been to one of our local museums in years.

Now that I travel frequently for work, I have seen the latest trend in museums is to have nationally touring shows - like Body Worlds or the Rembrandt exhibit. This has really evened the playing fields for our primary museums, while our area also lends itself to great regional attractions in the form of smaller museums and other related businesses like art galleries.

[Magnum Mike]

Originally Posted by Steve-o

Most large cities DO have botanical gardens, some with very large sections dedicated to desert flora. Just thought Id throw that out there....

And besides, why would you "demand" that we have one?

Don't we have a place in Phoenix called The Desert Botanical Gardens right by the Phoenix Zoo and Papago Park?