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Old 02-03-2012, 10:21 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
17,353 posts, read 20,521,273 times
Reputation: 9059

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HOAs change rules all the time without a vote of the membership. They do this by "interpreting" the rules that already exist. For example, a rule might state that no aggressive (or unusual or whatever vague term is in the CC&Rs) animals are allowed so they interpret this to be dogs over 100 lbs or Yorkies or whatever and you are screwed unless you have the financial means to sue them. Happens all the time. You give up your rights when you move into an HOA community and risk submitting yourself to a bunch of busy bodies with nothing better to do than make your life miserable in the name of "property values". They are not all bad, of course, but as a new resident you have no way of knowing until you move in and start getting violation notices if there is one weed in your yard or your tires are a half inch into the gravel in your yard or grandma gets a ticket for parking in front of your house while visiting one afternoon.

Last edited by Ponderosa; 02-03-2012 at 10:37 AM..
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
8,569 posts, read 10,762,485 times
Reputation: 4737
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
HOAs change rules all the time without a vote of the membership. They do this by "interpreting" the rules that already exist. For example, a rule might state that no aggressive (or unusual or whatever vague term is in the CC&Rs) animals are allowed so they interpret this to be dogs over 100 lbs or Yorkies or whatever and you are screwed unless you have the financial means to sue them. Happens all the time. You give up your rights when you move into an HOA community and risk submitting yourself to a bunch of busy bodies with nothing better to do than make your life miserable in the name of "property values". They are not all bad, of course, but as a new resident you have no way of knowing until you move in and start getting violation notices if there is one weed in your yard or your tires are a half inch into the gravel in your yard or grandma gets a ticket for parking in front of your house while visiting one afternoon.
..or if your a h neighbor puts his cans out in front of your empty home and leaves it for weeks. You would think the wizard in the car driving around looking for someone to bug would see the for rent sign in front of the home and put 2 and 2 together.
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:28 AM
 
5,532 posts, read 2,718,438 times
Reputation: 4121
Of the 88 fatal dog attacks recorded by DogsBite.org, pit bull type dogs were responsible for 59% (52). This is equivalent to a pit bull killing a U.S. citizen every 21 days during this 3-year period.
The data also shows that pit bulls commit the vast majority of off-property attacks that result in death. Only 18% (16) of the attacks occurred off owner property, yet pit bulls were responsible for 81% (13).
U.S. Dog Bite Statistics - DogsBite.org

With information like this out there I'm surprised people who don't want the hassle still purchase pit bulls. There are plenty of breeds that don't have this attack history. If you don't want trouble why go out and buy a pit bull these days? I mean, what do you want people to do? I see a pit bull and yes, I instantly get a little goose bumpy. I mean, they can do some damage. It's not like you don't hear it on the news quite often, a kid or adult being attacked by a pit bull. What do you pit bull owners expect anyway?
I wouldn't mind if my HOA banned the pit bull breed. Don't forget, like Captain Bill stated, it's made up of the neighborhood, and if the neighborhood doesn't want pit bulls running around then so be it. Buy a labrador or something.

Last edited by PoppySead; 02-03-2012 at 11:56 AM..
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Old 02-03-2012, 11:32 AM
 
5,532 posts, read 2,718,438 times
Reputation: 4121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jullihoop View Post
@sco. I hope ur right. Because I have two dogs that "look" ; ) like pitbulls, and I'm thinking about buying a house that has an HOA. My dogs are better behaved, than most peoples kids. But just because they "look" like pitbulls. People automatically think the worst.
Sorry but most people say their dogs don't bite before someone gets a bite from them. I guess owners treat them like their kids instead of animals and assume the best in them. It happens all the time. The owner is surprise their little sweetie would hurt someone.
That's like saying just because your kid dresses like he's in a gang doesn't mean someone should assume he is, he really is a sweet heart of a boy. I just don't think you'll have much luck with that. Not saying it's right or wrong, it just is.
Word to the wise, dogs really don't communicate well in english. If they could you could just tell them the HOA rules and they could just tell the HOA they aren't really pit bulls. lol

Last edited by PoppySead; 02-03-2012 at 11:54 AM..
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Two years in Raleigh, NC
6,042 posts, read 5,625,929 times
Reputation: 7567
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Of the 88 fatal dog attacks recorded by DogsBite.org, pit bull type dogs were responsible for 59% (52). This is equivalent to a pit bull killing a U.S. citizen every 21 days during this 3-year period.
The data also shows that pit bulls commit the vast majority of off-property attacks that result in death. Only 18% (16) of the attacks occurred off owner property, yet pit bulls were responsible for 81% (13).
U.S. Dog Bite Statistics - DogsBite.org

With information like this out there I'm surprised people who don't want the hassle still purchase pit bulls. There are plenty of breeds that don't have this attack history. If you don't want trouble why go out and buy a pit bull these days? I mean, what do you want people to do? I see a pit bull and yes, I instantly get a little goose bumpy. I mean, they can do some damage. It's not like you don't hear it on the news quite often, a kid or adult being attacked by a pit bull. What do you pit bull owners expect anyway?
I wouldn't mind if my HOA banned the pit bull breed. Don't forget, like Captain Bill stated, it's made up of the neighborhood, and if the neighborhood doesn't want pit bulls running around then so be it. Buy a labrador or something.
Poppyseed, I totally agree with you as long as dogs that are already family members are grandfathered in and allowed to stay until their natural demise. On leash at all times, which should also be the rule for labs, mini poos, yorkies, and any other dog breed imaginable. For the safety of the dog AND neighbors.

But then we have to consider this brilliant idea from one of our great AZ legislators

SB 1065 no-leash bill in Arizona.
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:27 PM
 
Location: Phoenix AZ
3,163 posts, read 4,030,264 times
Reputation: 3655
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead View Post
Of the 88 fatal dog attacks recorded by DogsBite.org, pit bull type dogs were responsible for 59% (52). This is equivalent to a pit bull killing a U.S. citizen every 21 days during this 3-year period.
The data also shows that pit bulls commit the vast majority of off-property attacks that result in death. Only 18% (16) of the attacks occurred off owner property, yet pit bulls were responsible for 81% (13).
U.S. Dog Bite Statistics - DogsBite.org

With information like this out there I'm surprised people who don't want the hassle still purchase pit bulls. There are plenty of breeds that don't have this attack history. If you don't want trouble why go out and buy a pit bull these days? I mean, what do you want people to do? I see a pit bull and yes, I instantly get a little goose bumpy. I mean, they can do some damage. It's not like you don't hear it on the news quite often, a kid or adult being attacked by a pit bull. What do you pit bull owners expect anyway?
I wouldn't mind if my HOA banned the pit bull breed. Don't forget, like Captain Bill stated, it's made up of the neighborhood, and if the neighborhood doesn't want pit bulls running around then so be it. Buy a labrador or something.
Poppy, I understand the fear of "pit bulls" but if you contrast the information you've posted, with the percentage of dogs that are taken in by the animal shelter and the Humane Society, you'll find something close to 70-80% of the dogs they take in are "pit bulls", or dogs that "look like pit bulls".

If the total population of dogs in the US is 70% "pit bull", it's only logical that they would represent the largest percentage of bite cases.

What is more disturbing is that some pencil-pusher at an insurance company 2000 miles from my home can tell me my dog's temperment just by looking at a picture of him.

Seriously, I had an insurance company request a picture of the (arthritic) family mutt - that hadn't ever shown aggression in 13 years of ownership.

And he wasn't a "pit bull".

Statistics can tell us many things - but they can also be tortured into worthless gibberish.

Remember when insurance companies tried to charge higher premiums for red cars?

Did you realize that some insurance companies will jack your car insurance rates - even double them - if you're late on your "visa" bill?

There's a statistical correlation, even if it's unfair and irrelevant.

There's a better way - a temperment test that can be done in a few minutes by those with the knowledge.

Most every facility that adopts dogs does it, including the Humane Society.

Simple things, like sticking a rubber hand in a food bowl while the dog is eating can tell you a lot.

I, like many responsible pet owners would gladly put our dogs through those tests to avoid the mindless statistical garbage that we're dealing with now.

Last edited by Zippyman; 02-03-2012 at 12:39 PM..
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Old 02-03-2012, 12:45 PM
 
1,232 posts, read 1,434,616 times
Reputation: 629
Quote:
the percentage of dogs that are taken in by the animal shelter and the Humane Society, you'll find something close to 70-80% of the dogs they take in are "pit bulls", or dogs that "look like pit bulls".

If the total population of dogs in the US is 70% "pit bull", it's only logical that they would represent the largest percentage of bite cases.
I always figured the plethora of pit bulls in the shelters wasn't due to their being so prevalent in the pet population but due to (1) their owners often not believing in spay/neuter, and (2) them being a breed not many people want.

I used to defend pit bulls until one who had never shown any aggression attacked my dog. The young lady who owned and raised him was shocked as anyone. It's just in their blood and you never when something will trigger it.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Phoenix AZ
3,163 posts, read 4,030,264 times
Reputation: 3655
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadyFreddy View Post
I always figured the plethora of pit bulls in the shelters wasn't due to their being so prevalent in the pet population but due to (1) their owners often not believing in spay/neuter, and (2) them being a breed not many people want.

I used to defend pit bulls until one who had never shown any aggression attacked my dog. The young lady who owned and raised him was shocked as anyone. It's just in their blood and you never when something will trigger it.
"in their blood"... really?

If you really, really, really want a "safe" neighborhood, dogs aren't what you need to worry about.

I'm pretty sure that (close to) 100% of the robberies, rapes & murders in my town were committed by ... people!

Shocking huh?

The statistics don't lie - it's "in their blood!"

And whatever you do, never live in a "family situation", because well - it's really, really dangerous!

If you are ever murdered, the odds run about 80% that it will be by the same guy who used to rub your feet at night, take you out to dinner, and might have even bought you a ring!

Ask any cop if you don't believe me.

It's genetically programmed into their very being, they have no choice, sometimes they just "snap"...

people are really vicious, vile & dangerous creatures that destroy the environment, and lower property values.

"High crime" areas all have one thing in common - people!

Seriously!

Detroit had lots of crime until the people left!

Then, they were no longer the "murder city" - they were "dethroned" by another city that had...

wait for it...

PEOPLE!

Put that in your HOA docs and smoke it!
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:06 PM
 
133 posts, read 113,214 times
Reputation: 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippyman View Post
Poppy, I understand the fear of "pit bulls" but if you contrast the information you've posted, with the percentage of dogs that are taken in by the animal shelter and the Humane Society, you'll find something close to 70-80% of the dogs they take in are "pit bulls", or dogs that "look like pit bulls".

If the total population of dogs in the US is 70% "pit bull", it's only logical that they would represent the largest percentage of bite cases.
Correlation does not equal causation.

There could be many, many obvious reasons why pit bulls would be over-represented amongst dogs taken to the Humane Society.

With that in mind, construing the Humane Society stats as meaning 70% of the dogs in the US are "pit bulls" is pretty shaky. I'd be shocked if pit bulls were anywhere even close to 50%, much less 70%.


Nothing against pit bull/staffy breeds, by the way, I think HOA rules like this are nonsense...but then I've always thought HOA's in general were nonsense.
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Old 02-03-2012, 01:24 PM
 
Location: Phoenix AZ
3,163 posts, read 4,030,264 times
Reputation: 3655
Quote:
Originally Posted by VOC1 View Post
Correlation does not equal causation.
My point exactly - rather than worrying about what color a dog's stripes are, you need to meet them & test the temperment.

Otherwise, the arguments against a particular breed sound a lot like the arguments used to justify human racism, which I think we can agree is not acceptable.
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