Is the City of Phoenix close to being communist? (square footage, tax)

[wshw997]

I just did get a update from the City of Phoenix and they said they do not require permits for single homeowners to do landscape work and that water heaters no longer need permits if done by a licensed installer. I have no idea what part of their website I was on (cause it was not clear) but maybe it was intended for commercial properties or home builders.

[rgscpat]

Permit fees are a significant revenue source for cities, especially with less tax money coming into city coffers throughout Arizona these days, compared to a few years ago. And, in any city, there's always a tension between personal liberty and people wanting to clamp down when they get annoyed or feel their property values are being affected by their neighbors.

If you were to plot freedom on a chart, generally a condo home owners' association in an age-restricted community would probably be the most restrictive, and rural property outside city limits would be the least restricted. It would then be interesting to compare similar properties to see which ones deviate from the trend line and are either more restrictive or liberal/laissez faire. Then the conformists and hard-core libertarians among us could perhaps find their perfect Phoenix area neighborhood.

[mhouse2001]

Permits wouldn't be required if people knew what they were doing and weren't foolish and/or destructive. Sadly, that isn't the case. And to top it off, people feel compelled to just BE that stupid and or destructive. Someone already wrote here suggesting that it's OK to do what you want until you are caught. That is precisely the attitude that brings about the permitting and bothersome rules.

A friend of mine had a house next door that was foreclosed. Somebody bought it and ripped up the inside, discarding the debris outside the house. Then the new owner set the pile on fire in order to "dispose" of it. It set the tree on my friend's property on fire and placed toxic fumes throughout the neighborhood. The guy got a serious fine but commented later that he'll just burn stuff up at night when no one will see. I honestly hate people like this.

The only freedom being trampled is the freedom to be stupid and destructive. What a horrible price to pay (sarcasm). (My opinion excludes HOAs which I think are typically awful).

[pandaundercover]

I'm up in Surprise and our HoA has pretty much all those landscape regulations you listed. It's so annoying that I feel like it's too much work to put in a lousy flower garden. Actually, I don't even KNOW if I need approval to put in a flower garden because I can't tell if that falls under HoA regulations or not, and it's too much work to really give an F. It does suck though... OUR backyards should be our property, but the HoA does a good job of making you feel like you really don't have any rights at all on your property. :-/

[psulions2007]

Originally Posted by wshw997

Very ignorant generalization? It is important to understand that when you buy a property you OWN it and it is not the property of the City. Listen I understand the need for safety inspections and permits etc. But when any government rather it be municipal, county, state says "we don't like that kind of plant or tree or that kind of landscaping" because of the way it looks that is near communism in my opinion.

I would not want to live in a City, State, County or Country that dictates what I do with my own property in terms of looks..it is NONE of their business. A homeowner is just that!

You don't really know what communism is, and you need to stop using the word communism when you mean authoritarianism (although that's a huge stretch as well).

Unfortunately for you, there is no federal right for you to do whatever you want with your property.

A city is a union of people, and you must abide by their rules if you want to live there. Let's say a city had planted and maintained many large oak tree-lined streets. The oak trees are on individuals' properties. Let's say you buy a house that has one of these oak trees on it, but you decide you don't like the tree, and instead, would like a palm tree. You cut it down, plant the palm tree, and now the tree lined street is screwed up because of you...even though it was on your property. The city comes, sees it, and fines you heavily and orders you to plant a new oak tree. This is understandable since you broke the uniformity of the street.

A city/town/village has a duty to generally keep things uniform and clean looking. This is something many towns in America do. If they didn't and just let people do whatever they wanted with their properties, it would look like a third world country with wildly different painted houses, types of houses, grasses, overgrown grasses, etc. etc.

If you don't like this, then you have the choice of moving out of that town... no one is forcing you to stay... however, since most towns in America have rules like this, you are better off at not living in an incorporated municipality at all.

[psulions2007]

Originally Posted by pandaundercover

I'm up in Surprise and our HoA has pretty much all those landscape regulations you listed. It's so annoying that I feel like it's too much work to put in a lousy flower garden. Actually, I don't even KNOW if I need approval to put in a flower garden because I can't tell if that falls under HoA regulations or not, and it's too much work to really give an F. It does suck though... OUR backyards should be our property, but the HoA does a good job of making you feel like you really don't have any rights at all on your property. :-/

You do understand why, though right?

If you do something ridiculous to your property and devalue it, it devalues the houses/properties around you. They have every right to regulate you in that way because what you do affects the market of the houses around you.

[goolsbyjazz]

Communist? Simply put...NO!

[AZgarden]

Just don't cut down any of those Saguaro cactus cause you will end up in jail !!!

[observer53]

Originally Posted by wshw997

Well a HOA I can expect that from (that is why I would never want to live in one). I am just trying to figure out if the City of Phoenix is just as bad?

The city of Phoenix has some residential areas with HOAs and some without, just as the other cities do. No, you don't need approval from the city just to change your landscaping (assuming you aren't adding patios or something that needs a building permit) if there is no HOA involved. Even HOAs vary quite a bit, they are not all the same in their enforcement or what they require.

I agree that the title of this thread is quite misleading and more than a bit over the top.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by mhouse2001

Permits wouldn't be required if people knew what they were doing and weren't foolish and/or destructive. Sadly, that isn't the case. And to top it off, people feel compelled to just BE that stupid and or destructive. Someone already wrote here suggesting that it's OK to do what you want until you are caught. That is precisely the attitude that brings about the permitting and bothersome rules.

A friend of mine had a house next door that was foreclosed. Somebody bought it and ripped up the inside, discarding the debris outside the house. Then the new owner set the pile on fire in order to "dispose" of it. It set the tree on my friend's property on fire and placed toxic fumes throughout the neighborhood. The guy got a serious fine but commented later that he'll just burn stuff up at night when no one will see. I honestly hate people like this.

The only freedom being trampled is the freedom to be stupid and destructive. What a horrible price to pay (sarcasm). (My opinion excludes HOAs which I think are typically awful).

Overall, I have to agree ... and I'm probably one of the biggest critics of large government and authoritarian rule on here. People should have the freedom to do whatever they want on their own property ... however, when their freedom interferes with other people's freedom, as well as the overall atmosphere of a neighborhood, that's when there needs to be rules enacted.

Regarding that idiot who obtained the house and created an inferno out of the debris, he might have been a renter, and not an owner. The majority of homeowners actually care enough about their property and the neighborhood to the point where they wouldn't do anything that stupid. But then again, there are some ignoramusses out there who buy property and just don't give a damn about it (or about the other people which their actions affect).