City of Mesa Camera Ticket process server question (Scottsdale: photo radar, house)

[azphotoradarsucks]

HI, I just received what I believe to be an illegitimate traffic ticket from the City of Mesa in my mailbox. I am infuriated that it is from a camera, and I had no opportunity to "discuss" the alleged violation with an actual officer (who, I am certain, would not have pulled me over in the first place.) Seems these things are unbeatable in court even if they are totally unjust, questionable tickets.

Question: If I wait for a process server to legally serve me the ticket, then choose to take the defensive driving course instead of paying a ticket I believe to be unjust, will I have to pay process server fees? I don't want the points on my squeaky clean driving record. I think it's best to force the city to abide by its own rules and serve me properly (since mail does not constitute legal service) and I think it's just wrong that they can fine me for the right to be legally served.

[las vegas drunk]

To answer your question yes, they will charge you the process server fee. My question is why even open the door for them? I got tons of photo radar tickets and never had to pay one of them just by avoiding the process server. In Scottsdale that is no longer true as they use alternate service, but Mesa will drop the ticket completely after 3 unsuccessful process server attempts.

[azphotoradarsucks]

Thanks for the info...In my heart I want to make them send a server out JUST BECAUSE IT IS THEIR DUTY. However, I don't want to pay the extra fine. The likelihood that they'll be able to successfully serve me is high, since I have 5 kids at home who may forget and answer the door. (I teach them to NOT answer the door for strangers, simply because it can be a dangerous thing to do..you never know who will come to your door, and a little kid should never be exposed to that risk....but it's not foolproof. Every once in a while they will answer the door anyway, and even though they get a stern lecture afterwards - about the potential dangers - it still happens now and then) Also, my husband does not want to have to worry about avoiding a process server. I can see his point, but deep down I am SO opposed to just forking over the money for an unjust ticket.

Have you had actual personal experience with this? In Mesa, do they always try 3 times? Sometimes less? Sometimes more? Also, do I need to have my car parked in the garage? I have heard that, if they see the ticketed car in the driveway and can hear people inside, they can serve you just by leaving it on your doorstep....

[Captain Bill]

I had 2 photo radar tickets. The first, I paid to take the course. It said I was speeding, and I was; 45 in a 35.

The second said I was speeding and I was. I was going by a high school zone in an area I wasn't familiar with. Didn't know the school was there, and because of the way traffic was at the moment, didn't see the sign changing from 45 to 25. It clocked me at 38, which was about right. Not seeing the sign was no excuse so I paid the fine.

The cameras, in both my cases, were right on and doing the job they were supposed to do.

I don't want to go around trying to avoid process servers, and risking my license, or going to jail.

Now I watch my speed more carefully.

[Ponderosa]

What's "unjust" here? It's technology. If you are guilty then you can pay or hide for a few months and set a fine example of taking responsibility for your actions for your children. "Mommy is hiding from the bad policeman." In a few years your kids will be driving and your hypocrisy in expecting them to obey traffic laws will not go unnoticed by them. This is a teaching moment. Don't make it the wrong lesson.

[Jalhop]

I think a process server needs confirmation of your name, by you. In that case it should be easy to avoid the server even outside. Just train yourself to say "who's asking?" when asked "are you so-and-so?".

This might the time to make your kids' behavior foolproof. That is so dangerous. My kids don't even move toward the door anymore, unless they know a friend is coming over.

A traffic camera ticket is fair when you drove unsafely and the amount isn't excessive. I wouldn't want to get a $475 ticket for a perfectly safe California stop, like happens in some cities. Most of the amount goes to a profit-making corporation.

[Zippyman]

Originally Posted by Jalhop

I think a process server needs confirmation of your name, by you. In that case it should be easy to avoid the server even outside. Just train yourself to say "who's asking?" when asked "are you so-and-so?".

This might the time to make your kids' behavior foolproof. That is so dangerous. My kids don't even move toward the door anymore, unless they know a friend is coming over.

A traffic camera ticket is fair when you drove unsafely and the amount isn't excessive. I wouldn't want to get a $475 ticket for a perfectly safe California stop, like happens in some cities. Most of the amount goes to a profit-making corporation.

They can serve any adult at your home - it doesn't have to be you.

[Jalhop]

Originally Posted by Zippyman

They can serve any adult at your home - it doesn't have to be you.

Seems like it. The process server may just lie, too. Here is a relevant article (boldface mine):

The problems occur when humans act like humans. If an alleged speeder is out of the country, has moved addresses or is in the hospital, the court considers the letter ignored and sends a legal process server, who gets paid per delivered citation.

By [Arizona] state law, the process server can leave the citation at an individual's home "with some person of suitable age and discretion then residing therein."

The server then submits a delivery affidavit to the court, even if the process server left the citation on the porch, with the landscaper or with a nine-year-old. A hearing date is then scheduled, and when the registered vehicle owners don't show, their licenses are suspended, even if they never knew of the citation and even if they weren't the actual the drivers.

[Jkgourmet]

Originally Posted by Jalhop

I think a process server needs confirmation of your name, by you. In that case it should be easy to avoid the server even outside.

Actually, no. In some jurisdictions, the service can be made to any adult in the house who acknowledges that this IS your residence.

It seems pretty simple to me:

* If you are so convinced you were not guilty of the offense, go to court and tell it to the judge. Yes, sometimes photo radar tickets do get dismissed. Not often, of course, because their pretty accurate in determining that a driver did something that was a violation of traffic laws.
* If you just object because it was photo radar instead of a human being, pay the fine or go to school (no points) and drive more carefully in the future. Whether you agree or not, they are (right now) legal. Afterwards, you can get involved in whatever group is trying to get the things banned to make yourself feel better.
* If you are just trying to avoid dealing with it - forget it, that's not an option.

Any of those three alternatives will have the additional, and necessary, benefit of teaching your kids about right and wrong.

[Jkgourmet]

Originally Posted by las vegas drunk

To answer your question yes, they will charge you the process server fee. My question is why even open the door for them? I got tons of photo radar tickets and never had to pay one of them just by avoiding the process server. In Scottsdale that is no longer true as they use alternate service, but Mesa will drop the ticket completely after 3 unsuccessful process server attempts.

This (combined with your member name) really makes me feel that photo radar is a good thing. If you are truly getting "tons of photo radar tickets" you need to be off the road as a dangerous driver.

Sorry if that sounds judgmental, but you're the one who admitted that you were breaking "tons" of traffic laws, endangering yourself and others.