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Something else I couldn't quite verbalize on my last post as I had to think about what it was I was seeing/feeling and form it into words. One thing we're seeing here in quite a few areas is the lack of interaction by neighbors. Now understand, before we bought here we lived off and on around the valley and in Casa Grande for almost a full year (full time RV) and made a point to walk areas we wanted to consider. We were here most of winter, several weeks spread through fall and spring so kind of touched on all the seasons.
We've lived in several parts of the country and I think this is about the 2nd or 3rd time out of 14 moves we've seen the amount of I guess "hibernation" that we see here and out of those this place is probably at the highest level. Maybe it's the mega subdivision life here or?
We saw this in Georgia during the summer but only during the daytime, after the sun set everyone came out and socialized and during the winter everyone was out most all of the time. We knew our neighbors, some better than others but all of them enough to have polite conversation.
Here we walk the area (when it's not 110 out) and see very few people. Those we have seen outside we made a point to stop and say hi and to a person they all said "you're the first person we've talked to in all the time we've been here". The first couple of times I asked why as I find it rather strange I was told "nobody talks to each other here and never have". There seems to be no sense of community in these subdivisions which we find very strange since everyone basically lives in each others hip pockets (compared to rural living where there's at least 2 acres between people. One example is a neighbor 4 doors down was working on his sprinkler system in the front yard and as I was walking to the mailbox I stopped to say hi since I'd not seen him outside before. At first you'd have thought I was an alien from the reaction but after a few minutes I found out he was having a hard time with the system and helped him fix it instead of him having to keep digging up his yard and then continued on to the mailbox. He was shocked that I'd stopped and offered to help but where we moved from that's just what neighbors do. We just don't get the "everyone stay to yourselves" thing and it tends to make you feel isolated even when surrounded by houses.
Something else I couldn't quite verbalize on my last post as I had to think about what it was I was seeing/feeling and form it into words. One thing we're seeing here in quite a few areas is the lack of interaction by neighbors. Now understand, before we bought here we lived off and on around the valley and in Casa Grande for almost a full year (full time RV) and made a point to walk areas we wanted to consider. We were here most of winter, several weeks spread through fall and spring so kind of touched on all the seasons.
We've lived in several parts of the country and I think this is about the 2nd or 3rd time out of 14 moves we've seen the amount of I guess "hibernation" that we see here and out of those this place is probably at the highest level. Maybe it's the mega subdivision life here or?
We saw this in Georgia during the summer but only during the daytime, after the sun set everyone came out and socialized and during the winter everyone was out most all of the time. We knew our neighbors, some better than others but all of them enough to have polite conversation.
Here we walk the area (when it's not 110 out) and see very few people. Those we have seen outside we made a point to stop and say hi and to a person they all said "you're the first person we've talked to in all the time we've been here". The first couple of times I asked why as I find it rather strange I was told "nobody talks to each other here and never have". There seems to be no sense of community in these subdivisions which we find very strange since everyone basically lives in each others hip pockets (compared to rural living where there's at least 2 acres between people. One example is a neighbor 4 doors down was working on his sprinkler system in the front yard and as I was walking to the mailbox I stopped to say hi since I'd not seen him outside before. At first you'd have thought I was an alien from the reaction but after a few minutes I found out he was having a hard time with the system and helped him fix it instead of him having to keep digging up his yard and then continued on to the mailbox. He was shocked that I'd stopped and offered to help but where we moved from that's just what neighbors do. We just don't get the "everyone stay to yourselves" thing and it tends to make you feel isolated even when surrounded by houses.
As someone who moved here from the PNW i am completely understand and share your point about neighbors being cold as ice.
Big part of it has to do with the weather i believed and most of us came from somewhere .
Something else worth noting is that since the housing market crashed here. People moving out and in the neighborhood and there you have a mix of homeowners and renters.
My turn to narrate my story. Moved here 3 months back from NC. Big change.
U will not see greenery
no upscale brick homes, they all stucco.
Don't know whats so great about scottsdale. Just clean roads with old buildings.
Even the best area like they call Paradise Valley, Biltmore don't know whats so special there. Compare it with Ballantyne/ South Park in Charlotte or Buck Head in Atl. Paradise Valley looks old and run down compared to them.
Climate n heat is Ok.
There are lot of foreclosures and deals in so so areas. Home are still expensive in the desirable areas.
No diversity.
I might be wrong on my comments please forgive me. This was my opinion.
There are lot of foreclosures and deals in so so areas. Home are still expensive in the desirable areas.
I detest huge brick homes that are found in TX, GA and other southern or mid west states. I choked to death on greenery in the norhtern CA pines...I hate pine trees, I hate snow, I hate rain for months at a time. I get absolutely suicidal when driving across nothing but flat, green farmland. Mega malls, you can have those as well. The south and please forgive me as it is just my opinion and has nothing to do with the people, seems dirty. The stores are gummy, the restaurants are always dirty as are the streets. New Orleans is an exception in the French Quarter as we were enjoying the bars too much to notice any trash. If you love Atlanta and can ignore the rampant increase in crime, then return to it and enjoy. Phoenix is not for everyone, but some of us love it here.
FWIW, those new brick homes in the east with the steep, dominating roofs look goofy to me when I visit there. Then there is the ubiquitous grass lawn with a lone sapling blowing in the wind. (Why oh why must they cut down all the trees to build a subdivision there?) I am one of the people who like the home styles in the southwest/CA especially in the newer developments where there are more elevations offered and paint schemes are varied and there is such a variety of vegetation. Phoenix suburban streetscapes in the new areas are really well done, IMO.
Thank you. The huge arched entries found in the TX red brick monstrosities drive me batty. Don't they have any other freaking building material besides red brick? Do they ever update their architectural designs? Why do they build 4,000 square foot homes for young families...and they still think the bedrooms are too small? Goofy nailed it.
I know all my neighbors, know their names, their kids, even their dogs. We have their house keys and they have ours and watch each other's place when someone goes away. We go out together to movies and restaurants at times.
I will admit this is different. When I lived in Ahwatukee I knew no one. Here, the neighbors came over and introduced themselves the day we moved in. One brought a plate of brownies (we half-joked about eating them that they might be poisoned - living in Phoenix can make you like that!). It also helps immensely if you have kids, because kids do befriend each other and through them you can end up meeting your neighbors. We met others at the various get togethers that are held in our development, too. We are on a cul de sac as well and you see the neighbors a lot more with that arrangement of houses.
It seems funny that so many complain about people not being friendly. If that is the case, the homes are full of people who want to be friendly. It just cant be that you are friendly but everyone else in the state is not. It can't be that different from where you moved. People here are from there. So say hi, or if you live in the right kind of development, attend some mixers and get to know people. When you drop the kids off at a friend's, go to the door and talk to the other mom. Go to PTA meetings. Even in Ahwatukee you can meet people if you say "hello". My dad was the super-friendly type. He came to visit me there once and within a week was on a first name basis with more people than I met in 10 years.
Last edited by Ponderosa; 09-09-2011 at 08:44 AM..
I know I'm not alone in this thinking but not everyone prefers to be close to their neighbors. I have friends and enjoy socializing like the next guy but when I go home I want to spend time with my family and have some privacy. I'll be more than happy to help my neighbors if they need something but I don't want to feel obligated to socialize with them. My home is a place of solace and when I come home from a long day of work, I want to be left alone so I can spend time with my family and relax. This is one of the aspects I like about the West Coast is that your neighbors respect your privacy. They are not rude and if you want to be friendly with them, most seem receptive to that but they don't knock on your door and don't want to know every detail of your life. I wasn't particularly fond of the South in which your neighbors seemed rather intrusive and would inquire what church you went to or would try to recruit you to their church. I really don't desire random people knocking on your door asking you for things or asking you to attend local barbeques, PTA, HOA meetings. That just wasn't for me. I know my neighbors and will say hello and ask how they are doing if we see each other but that's as far as I would like it to go for me. There is no right or wrong answer to this. It's cultural. People from the South miss that but being a West Coast guy who lived in the South, I found their neighborly ways a bit unsettling.
I have a story that some my find interesting. When I was looking at homes in Dallas, we found a home in a gated subdivision in Dallas. I looked at the home while the owner was present and he knew I was serious about purchasing the home. I'm Hispanic and can pass for Mediterranean/Middle Eastern. He asked my realtor what church I attended and if I was Muslim. True story! I declined to purchase that home because I didn't want to benefit that owner or live in a community that cared so much about one's background. I've never had that happen to me in the Valley.
Last edited by azriverfan.; 09-09-2011 at 10:41 AM..
I'm by no means a Phoenix booster, but from an urbanist perspective, the city has made strides under Gordon to improve its central core (a constant uphill battle) and make the downtown area a more exciting place to be overall. Its still got a long way to go (and this economic climate certainly isn't helping), but compared to when I first moved here fifteen years ago, things are a lot better than they used to be.
On some levels - Phoenix was better in the 80s and 90s than it is now. I don't care for the new train at all. I don't believe it was needed.
However I would not to live anywhere else - so I guess I am a Phoenix booster. LOL
Everyone has an opinion. Phoenix isn't for everyone. That being said, you were only here for 3 months. This is a large city and it takes years before you can really see the entire city. I'm sure you've been to parts of Paradise Valley but PV is fairly large and differs incredibly depending on where you are in PV. I love PV but I agree there are parts of PV that astonished me as well and looked run down. I think Scottsdale is beautiful and it looks different as well depending where you are. South Scottsdale is older and more urban. North Scottsdale is more "desert-like"
Having lived in the South, it did bother me that we have so many cookie cutter homes. That isn't limited to Phoenix, I hope you know that. If you go to Southern California, the same thing exists there. That being said, there are many beautiful custom home neighborhoods. I do think the homes in the South are beautiful but there are pretty seedy areas of Atlanta and Charlotte as well. It's true, we have many cookie cutter homes but cities like Atlanta and Charlotte have shanties that look like slums in a third world country; Phoenix really doesn't have that element. But yes, I prefer brick homes to the stucco that we have here.
With regard to diversity, it depends on what type of diversity you are referring to. Phoenix has a lot of geographic diversity. People in the Valley are from all over the country and I truly appreciate that as opposed to cities in the South where you have generations of people attending the same high schools and college and aren't really hospitable to outsiders. We also have a vibrant Latin community and a growing Asian population. Sure, we don't have a lot of African Americans and people from the South are used to that. Our AA community is growing as well.
And while there might be diversity in the South, that doesn't mean there is acceptance. The South still has a lot of racism and apartheid. Sure, it's not South Africa but when you have certain areas of the city essentially segregated by race, it can feel that way. And the Evangelical Christian element in the South is not very tolerant toward people of other faiths, homosexuals and people who reject organized religion and don't attend church regularly. And their thinking goes beyond race and religion. Even with regard to things like acupuncture, yoga, alternative forms of healing etc, they are very closed minded about those issues whereas in Arizona and the West Coast in general, they are much more receptive. My wife is a vegetarian and was often ridiculed in the South and made to uncomfortable if we went to a restaurant and asked them to hold meat or order dishes with no meat. I also don't care for the excess fried food, country music and generally unhealthy lifestyles; I've never seen more fat doctors in my life than in South and I'm referring to cardiologists!
Finally, with regard to lack of greenery, I disagree. Many share that opinion but I don't agree. It's not the Pacific Northwest but it's not brown dirt everywhere either. There is plenty of trees and grass. Sure, it might be manicured and it's not bountiful but I've never found it difficult to find a home with grass, trees and plants.
I've lived in all three cities and South Phoenix is as much or more "third world" than anything I saw in Atlanta or Charlotte (especially Charlotte). also, the long, long stretch along Jefferson going east is one of the worse eyesores I have ever seen. Don't know if they cleaned that up though since I moved away.
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