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Old 10-29-2011, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
16,937 posts, read 20,022,748 times
Reputation: 8866
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
VN, I understand exactly where you're coming from. From what I understand, there are no required school uniforms in a public school, therefore the school cannot control the dress of students in the school.

Teen pregnancies is a parental issue. The schools cannot prevent, and don't even know when teens have sex.

Dropping out is again a parental issue. Parents need to insure that their kids are doing their homework and attending school.

Bullying is a huge problem and one that parents and schools are fighting to get under control.

The girls were not banned from wearing the t-shirts.
The school could not ban them from wearing them. However, they can and did ban them from wearing the t-shirts when representing the school at a school activity where they were performing.

The booster club violated the rules by not getting approval, and then one of them went to the media. The booster club parents have embarrassed themselves and the school because they were apparently negligent in their actions. Had they applied for approval, this issue would never had happened. There would have been a compromise negotiated (I believe).
There is a dress code at every high school in the valley. I think Valley Native is getting a bit carried away as much of what he says goes, does, in fact run afoul of the average dress code. The kids wear what is in fashion just like he did in his day. They try to push it, the school pushes back. That is part of the high school experience. It makes us appreciate being adult and deciding our own morality (except in Gilbert, of course )

Also, I believe you are incorrect in that the shirt has only been banned for cheerleaders at the game. The statement from the principal was clear that the shirt was deemed inappropriate for wear on school property (campus).

Last edited by Ponderosa; 10-29-2011 at 01:26 PM..
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:31 AM
 
9,026 posts, read 9,625,217 times
Reputation: 6421
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN-Born-n-Raised View Post
To me, nothing was "offensive" about it. But it is classless. Personally I don't think it is a big deal. If I was at that game, I would have nudged my wife and mentioned it was not the best choice. I surely would not have complained. If my 16 daughter wanted to wear it, I would have let her but I would have suggested it was not the best saying for that venue.

I saw a Tee-Shirt at the airport saying "orgasm donor". While he thought that was funny, I thought he was an idiot and lacked class (he looked the classless part by the way).

If a Delta attendant wore ""feel for lumps, save your bumps" I propose most everyone I know would at least snicker. I don't think I am "just sick" but rather normal in my thinking. That's because I have grown up.
I agree and disagree. Sure, I don't think a Delta Flight Attendant should wear that shirt just like I don't think a physician should wear that shirt. However, I do think it is appropriate in a high school or college venue. In these settings, young people try to be edgy and cute. In that context, the message works. It's playful. Upon first glance, you see "feel lumps" and then realize it regards breast cancer and there is a play on words and it gets the message across. Think about the types of shirts kids wear in high school and college? They can't wear those in the professional world but they can wear them at their level; even Senior class t-shirts are fairly classless as they try to be cute or have puns but at their level, you understand. Think about high school floats where the opposing team's mascots are being flushed in a toilet or hung with a noose or some other type of cruel punishment; it that context you get it and don't question it, why is this any different? I do agree with Ponderosa, I think the Gilbert community overreacted but given their conservative mindset, I'm not surprised.
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:58 AM
 
274 posts, read 297,019 times
Reputation: 411
Moderator cut: snip

You know, too much stress or pressure in your life can be debilitating.

Last edited by Kimballette; 10-30-2011 at 06:33 AM.. Reason: crude
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:40 AM
 
3,741 posts, read 3,124,773 times
Reputation: 2605
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
I agree and disagree. Sure, I don't think a Delta Flight Attendant should wear that shirt just like I don't think a physician should wear that shirt. However, I do think it is appropriate in a high school or college venue. In these settings, young people try to be edgy and cute. In that context, the message works. It's playful. Upon first glance, you see "feel lumps" and then realize it regards breast cancer and there is a play on words and it gets the message across. Think about the types of shirts kids wear in high school and college? They can't wear those in the professional world but they can wear them at their level; even Senior class t-shirts are fairly classless as they try to be cute or have puns but at their level, you understand. Think about high school floats where the opposing team's mascots are being flushed in a toilet or hung with a noose or some other type of cruel punishment; it that context you get it and don't question it, why is this any different? I do agree with Ponderosa, I think the Gilbert community overreacted but given their conservative mindset, I'm not surprised.
Your overview makes sense and I follow your rational. To answer your question as to why this is any different: they were chearleaders.

At the end of the day, it was the the principals call. I suspect this district (see Condoms for First Graders? Mass. Elementary School Under Fire - HealthPop - CBS News ) would not have cringed. While we don't know for sure, I agree with you that the location of this event probably has something to do with how you react. After all, my reaction (even though I am agnostic) can be traced to an area where I grew up from age 5. I also voted for this person twice Congresswoman Michele Bachmann. Proudly Serving the 6th District of Minnesota. I graduated with Gretchen Carlson on Fox News so we are pretty conservative here in the 6th congressional district. There are no shortage of churches in Anoka Country MN; I'm actually amazed. When I drove though Gilbert, there were LDS churches smack dab in the middle of each neighborhood similar to SLC.

And here in Anoka MN, this is our national scandal (see http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_924678.html ). Lawsuits are happening because the district is neutral on sexual teaching and blaming suicides on the district.

From:http://www.anoka.k12.mn.us/education/page/download.php?fileinfo=NjA0LjExX1NleHVhbF9PcmllbnRh dGlvbl9DdXJyaWN1bHVtX1BvbGljeS5wZGY6Ojovd3d3Ni9zY2 hvb2xzL21uL2Fub2thL2ltYWdlcy9kb2NtZ3IvMTUwNDlfZmls ZV80ODU4NV9tb2RfMTI2MDk5MTE5MC5wZGY= (broken link)
Anoka-Hennepin staff, in the course of their professional duties, shall remain neutral on matters regarding sexual orientation including but not limited to student led discussions. If and when staff address sexual orientation, it is important that staff do so in a respectful manner that is age-appropriate, factual, and pertinent to the relevant curriculum.

So it's rational to think that a school district in Gilbert will behave in a manner that fits the make-up of the community. While we don't know that for sure in this specific event, IMHO it's rational and probable to assume there is an influence. I am sure that our school district would have asked the girls to turn their shirts inside out as well. But this Gilbert event doesn't need national news coverage on a principals decision that is sensitive to the make-up of it's community.

Last edited by MN-Born-n-Raised; 10-30-2011 at 08:07 AM..
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,066 posts, read 8,180,593 times
Reputation: 3666
It seems to be the non-Gilbert community that overreacted. They reacted like children by resorting to the juvenile practice of name calling while at the same time referring to themselves as "mature".

Go through the thread and you'll find people calling Gilbert residents names such as:
  • bluenoses
  • prudes
  • dirty little minds
  • overly imaginative
  • sick ones
  • minds in the gutter
  • nutty people
  • immature
  • sponging off our tax dollars
  • taliban
  • religious right dictating to others
  • making fools of yourself
  • stepford-esque (I think the person who called Gilbert stepford-esque probably realized that s/he should have consulted the dictionary first, and edited the remark out)
Mature adults discuss issues, and don't resort to name calling.

THIS IS THE SEQUENCE OF EVENTS according to the articles:
  • Booster club president has a company design shirts and the logo
  • She thought the logo was "cute".
  • Not all of the girls were comfortable with it.
  • The president violated the rules by not getting school approval
  • The treasurer said she "thought" someone had gotten approval.
  • Principal discovers t-shirts and found them inappropriate and banned them, for the welfare of all the students.

    It's the principals job to make these decisions, and the story should have ended right there.

    But instead of working up the available channels within the school district, the booster club president made the mistake of taking this public.
    .
  • Booster president goes to the Arizona Republic to make this a public affair. This apparently was the second big mistake
  • The media takes it world wide.
  • All of the Gilbert bashers, political left, and Mormon haters jump on the bandwagon to trash Gilbert, which is a very respectable Town.
  • Most of the girls and the school are embarrassed because of the actions of the booster club president
  • Now they are looking to get rid of the current officers who caused this debacle.
This debacle was created by the booster club officers acting in violation of the rules and against the welfare of ALL the cheer leaders.

It was exacerbated by the booster president taking it to the media.

Then the media took it all out of proportion, and tried to get into the stadium to create more problems.

The way in which one article was titled was extremely misleading. It was stated in such a way to make it appear that people were objecting to breast cancer awareness. That couldn't be farther from the truth.

Quote:
Media quote= “About 25 students and parents stood up for breast-cancer awareness and the First Amendment on Friday by wearing a controversial T-shirt to a Gilbert High School football game.”
The t-shirt was controversial, but no one’s First Amendment rights were violated, and everyone supports the breast cancer fight.

A reporter tried to get into the stadium with a crew and apparently after an argument was threatened with arrest. Then he apparently complained that freedom of the press was violated.

But the press does not have the right to go just anywhere they please. Especially when their presence is for the purpose of further stirring up a controversy in order to sell their media; and would be disruptive to the proceedings at the stadium.

This statement by a female with friends who have breast cancer is quite appropriate:

Quote:
There is already plenty of awareness for Breast Cancer. Sexy cheerleaders who think that Breast Cancer is "cute" because let's face it "pink" is an attractive color and a slogan like "Feel For Lumps...Save Your Bumps" gets the attention of the opposite sex, which is their real goal, but does it really get the attention of potential donations to cancer research?

It's making a joke out of Breast cancer and Breast Cancer is no joke. Visit any cancer center and see how "sexy" and "cute" Breast Cancer is.

Two of my friends are suffering from Breast Cancer
and there is nothing sexy about it, as these cheerleaders are trying to make it so. The chance of dying from breast cancer is about 1 in 35. Now, that's a better slogan, not cute, not sexy, but REAL.
Now if anyone thinks that high school girls do not make efforts to get the attention of the opposite sex, and if they don't think that teen age boys won't react to slogans like that, they are either lying, or have their head buried deep in the sand.

Why do the young girls wear cleavage revealing blouses? Why do some of them get breast implants? It's all to attract the opposite sex, isn't it.

Now what are we left with?

People from outside Gilbert jumping on the band wagon, resorting to calling the respectful people of Gilbert names, and arguing that their moral values are better than others, instead of focusing on what is more important in this debacle, which is the bad example the booster club officers set for the cheer leading team of not working as a team; and not following the rules.

Not one of the people on this thread who are complaining about Gilbert have responded to discuss the issue of bad examples of team work, and respect for the rules.

You also have the booster club president, and a cheer leader saying that "this is what a doctor will say to you".

I can expect that statement from a teenager, but not an adult woman. No respectable doctor should use "cute" phrases like that with a patient. It is not a joke. They should, and I would think that all of them do, consult with their adult and teenage patients with seriousness, respect, and in an educational manner.
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,066 posts, read 8,180,593 times
Reputation: 3666
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
...Also, I believe you are incorrect in that the shirt has only been banned for cheerleaders at the game. The statement from the principal was clear that the shirt was deemed inappropriate for wear on school property (campus).
Yes, I think I was mistaken. I re-read the articles and think you're correct.
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Gilbert Arizona
862 posts, read 1,314,079 times
Reputation: 1038
I messed up the exact wording of the T shirt, I am not aware of the political situation in Gilbert schools, don't know any of the parents involved who may or may not be pains in the bum,and I have no idea yet who to vote for.

But I am so glad I spoke up. For the girls. And THEIR right to have uniforms for public school functions that they are reasonably comfortable wearing in a public setting.
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Old 10-30-2011, 06:42 PM
Status: "Motel Hell really did happen!" (set 7 days ago)
 
Location: Meth capital of the world.
8,096 posts, read 5,405,308 times
Reputation: 4220
Quote:
Originally Posted by observer53 View Post
I'm sure people fighting breast cancer or who are survivors are tired of hearing about it, too.

Good, then maybe we could give a little attention to some other form of cancer.
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Old 10-30-2011, 07:18 PM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,066 posts, read 8,180,593 times
Reputation: 3666
Quote:
Originally Posted by tickyul View Post
Good, then maybe we could give a little attention to some other form of cancer.
Cancer is such a dreadful disease that I feel all types of cancer should be kept at the forefront of our attention.

My dad and one brother died from lung cancer from smoking. Another died from a heart attack, but he was also a heavy smoker and I understand that can cause constriction in the arteries and contribute to a heart attack.

Fortunately I quit smoking in 1967, so it'll probably be a different type of cancer that gets me.

It's possible that many people were not aware of the deadly consequences of breast cancer, because many may have thought that a mastectomy would always take care of the problem.

Because of that misconception I believe it's very important that people keep reminded of the deadliness of breast cancer.

With men it's prostate cancer that is very serious, and like breast cancer, if detected early enough may be cured.
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Old 10-30-2011, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Gilbert Arizona
862 posts, read 1,314,079 times
Reputation: 1038
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post
The sentence that I bolded makes about the most sense: move on to something more important. The uptight prudes are the ones who put the controversy into this non essential issue, and implied that it has sexual overtones, which it really doesn't. Why don't they focus their attention on the more important happenings instead of some phrase on a shirt which promotes a beneficial cause?

If some of the parents are objecting to these kinds of things in the schools, why are they even sending their kids to a public school in the first place? If they want to protect their "tender, complicated" teen daughters from all the terrible things in the world, perhaps they should take some responsibility of their own! School them at home, or send them to a private institution where the discipline standards are stricter. That way, those parents would have more of a say of what goes on ... and best of all, they wouldn't be sponging off our tax dollars! There are things that these politically correct hypocrites can do instead of sitting around whining or making mountains out of molehills (pardon the pun).
Valley Native, why don't you worry about who makes porn in the Valley like on the other post here and let me and other Gilbert parents worry about how to keep public schools a place where teens can grow into their politics in peace? Okay?
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