Buckeye Police - Black Friday - Police Brutality? (Scottsdale, Congress: sales, camping)

[Phxrider]

Concealing merchandise in az is a crime, when pops concealed it he committed a crime. Other customers informed the officer he stole something. Officer contacts pops, pops resisted got taken to the ground end of story. Now if cop contacted pops , pops gets run for warrants, gets cut loose with a misdemeanor citation to appear in court and trespassed from the store. The choice was up to pops who escalated the issue. But due to escalating violence over a bull**** holiday called Xmas which is all about greed incidents like this and violence will continue every year. Look at the poor security guard who got trampled to death a few years ago. Black Friday has to be banned soon. I don't care if someone gets killed as long as my kid gets video game x for xmas

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Bummer

There's a simple solution to this fiasco . . .

The best way to PROTECT A GRANDCHILD would have been to leave him home and not subject him to Black Friday at Wal-Mart.

There's a time and place for little kids . . .

+1000

Why do people subject themselves to this stampede of primates? I dont step foot in a retail store between Thanksgiving and New Year's except to buy groceries or booze. And I usually do that after 11pm. I Xmas shop online only, you know, to avoid the animals.

[MN-Born-n-Raised]

Originally Posted by TBCasino

How do you know he wasn't a shoplifter? Do you have proof, aside from his statements? The Baseline Killer has a bunch of excuses as well, you believe him too? What's wrong with waiting for the facts to come out?
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If the suspect has been arrested before for shoplifting, then I am going with the odds that he was guilty. On the other had, most thieves don't wait in line for an hour before a store opens to find THE best price.

If I knew I didn't steal something and I wanted to calm things down to explain my point of view, I too might not hand over my wrist automatically to a police that has a severe superiority complex.

I'm with Ponderosa. Someone is going to be paying out on this one.

[Captain Bill]

There are several issues involved in this incident:

• The crowd, as shown in the police report was out of control, and people were being injured. Some were taking items out of the hands of others. Consequently there was a lot of adrenaline flowing.
• The police were apparently hired for crowd control, not for shoplifting identification.
• Ponderosa clarified that "concealment" is considered shoplifting.
• The grandfather resisted arrest
• In the hospital, he stated he put the videos under his shirt to keep them from being grabbed by others. (People had been taking items from others people) In this situation that is a reasonable response, and would probably be defensible if charges were pressed by Wal Mart. One cannot know for sure what was in his mind because he had not walked out of the store without paying. However, given the chaotic crowd with people being injured and having items grabbed from their hand, it's possible that he would not have been charged after the arrest.

The arresting cop did not make the determination that the man was a shoplifter. According to the police report, a Wal Mart employee saw the man place the items under his shirt, grabbed his arm and called the police officer over to have him arrested.

While the grandfather may have been innocently protecting the video when he placed it in his waist band, he made a terrible mistake when he resisted the arresting officer.

The police report said the officer attempted to arrest the man and he resisted, and they actually traveled around 30 feet in the store during the arrest attempt. He managed to get one cuff on the man, and he apparently got that arm loose. (A loose hand with a cuff on is a dangerous weapon, and can injure a lot of bystanders in the vicinity, in addition to the officer).

A take down is apparently a common tactic to gain control of a resisting person, and unfortunately the officer cannot choose the surface. It is unfortunate that the man's head hit the floor and knocked him unconscious. However, that would not have happened had he not been resisting.

No matter that the crowd was chaotic, and adrenaline was flowing, one should know to never resist arrest.

Arizona Revised Statutes,13-2508. Resisting arrest; classification A. A person commits resisting arrest by intentionally preventing or attempting to prevent a person reasonably known to him to be a peace officer, acting under color of such peace officer's official authority, from effecting an arrest by:
1. Using or threatening to use physical force against the peace officer or another; or
2. Using any other means creating a substantial risk of causing physical injury to the peace officer or another.
B. Resisting arrest is a class 6 felony.

Here is the police report
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[Nanny Goat]

Black Friday will soon be changed to "Bloody Friday."

[Phxrider]

The police do not have time to book every misdemeanor shoplifter into jail. Unless it is a high dollar amount, the suspect has a long criminal history or previous offenses, he or she is cut loose with a piece of paper to appear in court. Most dont even wear handcuffs, the worst that would happen if Pops didnt have any ID he would taken to Buckeye PD fingerprinted, identified and released from there. He is the one that escalated the issue by resisting or attempting to drag the officer down the isle. He should be ashamed of himself doing this in front of his family. What a disgrace for a grandfather. Glad he is not related to me.

Its the same as if your drunk or your driver's license is suspended. You wait for the blood to come back and if your not an .08 the charge will be dropped. If ADOT says your license was valid at the time you got stopped then the charge will be dropped. It does not give you a right to flee in your vehicle from the officer because you feel your not guilty.

Good job Buckeye PD, keep locking up these thieves and Black Friday morons.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

There are several issues involved in this incident:

• The crowd, as shown in the police report was out of control, and people were being injured. Some were taking items out of the hands of others. Consequently there was a lot of adrenaline flowing.
• The police were apparently hired for crowd control, not for shoplifting identification.
• Ponderosa clarified that "concealment" is considered shoplifting.
• The grandfather resisted arrest
• In the hospital, he stated he put the videos under his shirt to keep them from being grabbed by others. (People had been taking items from others people) In this situation that is a reasonable response, and would probably be defensible if charges were pressed by Wal Mart. One cannot know for sure what was in his mind because he had not walked out of the store without paying. However, given the chaotic crowd with people being injured and having items grabbed from their hand, it's possible that he would not have been charged after the arrest.

The arresting cop did not make the determination that the man was a shoplifter. According to the police report, a Wal Mart employee saw the man place the items under his shirt, grabbed his arm and called the police officer over to have him arrested.

While the grandfather may have been innocently protecting the video when he placed it in his waist band, he made a terrible mistake when he resisted the arresting officer.

The police report said the officer attempted to arrest the man and he resisted, and they actually traveled around 30 feet in the store during the arrest attempt. He managed to get one cuff on the man, and he apparently got that arm loose. (A loose hand with a cuff on is a dangerous weapon, and can injure a lot of bystanders in the vicinity, in addition to the officer).

A take down is apparently a common tactic to gain control of a resisting person, and unfortunately the officer cannot choose the surface. It is unfortunate that the man's head hit the floor and knocked him unconscious. However, that would not have happened had he not been resisting.

No matter that the crowd was chaotic, and adrenaline was flowing, one should know to never resist arrest.

Here is the police report
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.
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Sounds like the cops were taking their instructions from an untrained store clerk!

Like you say, adrenaline. My wife was at another Walmart and said the scene at the DVDs was pure pandemonium. People throwing them everywhere and pushing and elbowing each other to get to the titles they wanted.

[Captain Bill]

The retailers have known for years the chaos that these Black Friday events create. Yet they keep having them because of greed on their part feeding on the greed of the population.

It is their right to do this, but in my opinion they should find another way to attract buyers in a more orderly fashion. This drawing of a mass chaotic crowd, causing them to fight over a few loss leader products needs to come to an end.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

The retailers have known for years the chaos that these Black Friday events create. Yet they keep having them because of greed on their part feeding on the greed of the population.

It is their right to do this, but in my opinion they should find another way to attract buyers in a more orderly fashion. This drawing of a mass chaotic crowd, causing them to fight over a few loss leader products needs to come to an end.

Walmart was getting very good reviews for its crowd control efforts this year in the press. My wife said it was all very well handled except the DVD and kids clothing where things were more chaotic. Many places like Best Buy were giving out "coupons" to people in line. Again, they seem to have done a better job this year than in the past. There are thousands of Walmarts in the US and the number of incidents was very, very low. Unfortunately, one of them was in our own backyard.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by Phxrider

Good job Buckeye PD, keep locking up these thieves and Black Friday morons.

They are not "morons". They are just regular people who enjoy going out on Black Friday and the excitement of the crowds and the deals. They are having fun. Some like my wife and kids look forward to Black Friday all year! They study the ads and map out their routes, what stores to hit and when, and go along with some of the neighbors and have a good time. The news makes it sound like it goes on everywhere, but there are very few incidents of this nature in reality. If you don't enjoy it, fine, stay home and sleep like I do. But quit calling others who do "morons".