Looming Phoenix bus strike

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by j_cat

Shaking my head at the mentality of so many of you in Phoenix. One of the many reasons why I left. It seems you'd rather deny other workers their rights than fight for your own. Sad.

What rights is any (legal) worker being denied in AZ? It's a right to work state. I have the right to strike and my employer has the right to fire me for it. Then I have the right to try to find a better job, before or after I'm fired.

[Bondurant]

Originally Posted by j_cat

Shaking my head at the mentality of so many of you in Phoenix. One of the many reasons why I left. It seems you'd rather deny other workers their rights than fight for your own. Sad.

Why should I have sympathy for people that strike when they make double my annual income with benefits on top? I was reading one of the reasons for the strike was the Veolia cut the amount of sick days that the drivers could acquire and then cash out upon retirement from 144 to 60. Sixty sicks days to cash out is still obscene compared with what regular folks like myself have. I have nothing. These drivers went on strike and hurt the real working class folks who depended on the buses to get to work. This strike was a disgrace.

[observer53]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

What rights is any (legal) worker being denied in AZ? It's a right to work state. I have the right to strike and my employer has the right to fire me for it. Then I have the right to try to find a better job, before or after I'm fired.

"Right to work" has nothing to do with this strike. The workers did what they had a right to do, and put off doing for a very long time (this matter should have been resolved before it ever came to where it did, and that lies at the feet of both sides). Whether they could have been fired for striking, I would imagine, is also addressed in their contract.

Originally Posted by Bondurant

Why should I have sympathy for people that strike when they make double my annual income with benefits on top? I was reading one of the reasons for the strike was the Veolia cut the amount of sick days that the drivers could acquire and then cash out upon retirement from 144 to 60. Sixty sicks days to cash out is still obscene compared with what regular folks like myself have. I have nothing. These drivers went on strike and hurt the real working class folks who depended on the buses to get to work. This strike was a disgrace.

Some of those "working class folks" also have sick leave they will be able to cash out when they retire.

Some jobs pay better or have better benefits than others, whether they are covered by a union contract or not. I don't know what the new contract says vis a vis sick leave cashout. It would be interesting to see how many drivers have significant sick leave accumulation. Many who have sick leave don't tend to save it, as they aren't thinking about what might happen at retirement years down the road. In any event, that unilateral change by Veolia was one of many issues the union has with Veolia which are the subject of unfair labor practice charges being heard by the appropriate authorities. http://www.atu1433.org/

No one is asking you to have "sympathy" for the drivers. Like it or not, the union did what it had the contracted- for-by-both-sides right to do. It's too bad that it came down to a strike, which had been put off many times by the union, but I was frankly surprised (and glad) that it settled as quickly as it did. Shows that it should have been resolved before it ever came to that. And both sides are usually to blame when that happens.

[madmmac]

Originally Posted by Bondurant

Why should I have sympathy for people that strike when they make double my annual income with benefits on top? I have nothing. These drivers went on strike and hurt the real working class folks who depended on the buses to get to work. This strike was a disgrace.

Is it your or their fault that they make 2 times more money with benefits than you do? Honestly.

I think the Union did the working class a favor by going out on a Saturday. Just think if they had called the strike at 11:59 pm Sunday night. Monday morning would have been a total catastrophe. Personally as a negotiator, that would have been my call to place more pressure on the Company to truly negotiate.

Nobody ever really wins in a strike.

[Bondurant]

Originally Posted by madmmac

Is it your or their fault that they make 2 times more money with benefits than you do? Honestly.

I think the Union did the working class a favor by going out on a Saturday. Just think if they had called the strike at 11:59 pm Sunday night. Monday morning would have been a total catastrophe. Personally as a negotiator, that would have been my call to place more pressure on the Company to truly negotiate.

Nobody ever really wins in a strike.

No. I'm just tired of seeing well paid union workers strike. Back home in Michigan a shop went on strike over wages. These folks held the highest manufacturing wages in the county (and made nearly double what most shops paid in the same county). These union folks need to step back into reality.

I also saw how the picketers were treating their co-workers that opted not to strike. At least there were some who realized they had something good going. Those drivers deserve applause.

[observer53]

But, this strike was not about wages, but about unfair labor practices in which preliminary rulings in the union's favor had already been made. What really needs to happen out of all this, from what I've read, is that the City needs to look long and hard about continuing to deal with Veolia.

[las vegas drunk]

I have a question. I have always thought bus drivers were public sector workers employed by the city. Is that still true now? I only ask now because of hearing the name Veolia being a private company.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by observer53

"Right to work" has nothing to do with this strike.

It doesn't? I'd say they were pretty lucky to keep their jobs after striking in a right to work state. I'd fire anyone who skipped work and I'd expect to be fired for doing the same. There are a lot of unemployed and underemployed folks in AZ who would kill to make the money those strikers are already making. I'd be happy to hire more motivated people after I fired anyone who went on strike. Other than with a union/gov't. job, where else can I find a job that lets me skip work because I want to throw a tantrum for not getting a raise? Bizarro world.

[Ponderosa]

Originally Posted by observer53

"Right to work" has nothing to do with this strike. The workers did what they had a right to do, and put off doing for a very long time (this matter should have been resolved before it ever came to where it did, and that lies at the feet of both sides). Whether they could have been fired for striking, I would imagine, is also addressed in their contract.



Some of those "working class folks" also have sick leave they will be able to cash out when they retire.

Some jobs pay better or have better benefits than others, whether they are covered by a union contract or not. I don't know what the new contract says vis a vis sick leave cashout. It would be interesting to see how many drivers have significant sick leave accumulation. Many who have sick leave don't tend to save it, as they aren't thinking about what might happen at retirement years down the road. In any event, that unilateral change by Veolia was one of many issues the union has with Veolia which are the subject of unfair labor practice charges being heard by the appropriate authorities. Amalgamated Transit Union | Phoenix Transit Union | Arizona Transit Union

No one is asking you to have "sympathy" for the drivers. Like it or not, the union did what it had the contracted- for-by-both-sides right to do. It's too bad that it came down to a strike, which had been put off many times by the union, but I was frankly surprised (and glad) that it settled as quickly as it did. Shows that it should have been resolved before it ever came to that. And both sides are usually to blame when that happens.

I am with you. This labor issue went on for 22 months. 22 months that the union worked without a contract. The bus bosses would not bargain in good faith. They are the ones that hurt the riders, not the drivers. Then it gets settled in 5 days with a strike? The strike seemed pretty effective at moving minds all around. Sometimes, like this time, strikes are the best approach.