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Old 01-24-2012, 04:58 PM
 
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I have osteoporosis and have been looking everywhere for an endocrinologist who will treat osteoporosis without drugs being their first choice. Surely there is a doctor is this city who is caring and patient enough to at least try more natural methods to slow down bone loss. Hopefully, there is someone smarter than me that has already tracked them down. Thank you!
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Old 01-24-2012, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Metro Phoenix, AZ USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by osteogal View Post
I have osteoporosis and have been looking everywhere for an endocrinologist who will treat osteoporosis without drugs being their first choice. Surely there is a doctor is this city who is caring and patient enough to at least try more natural methods to slow down bone loss. Hopefully, there is someone smarter than me that has already tracked them down. Thank you!
I don't know of one, but maybe contacting these people would point you in the right direction. AZOC : Home
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Old 01-24-2012, 06:46 PM
 
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Try a Naturopathic Physician, ND, or a more holistically oriented MD. Or, maybe a functional medicine MD. You'd have to google around to find one.
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Old 01-24-2012, 08:13 PM
 
Location: the AZ desert
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Try putting your zip code here and the distance you're willing to travel. When it lists the resulting endocrinologists, look for one which says, "osteoporosis and bone health".

You can begin researching choices from that point.
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Old 01-25-2012, 10:05 AM
 
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There is one. Lori Baraz M.D. She practices in North Phoenix. She has a 3-4 month wait but is one of the best in the city. Truth be told, "natural" methods for treating osteoporosis is high doses of Vitamin D and Calcium if you want to avoid Bisphosphanates (Fosamax, Boniva). By high doses of Vitamin D, you are talking about a minimum of 5,000 units a day however do not follow that advice until you see an endocrinologist since that is not my field of expertise. However, you can approach an Endocrinologist about that approach. Another thing is know your T score. You need to get a DEXA scan because it depends on the level of bone loss. There is a difference between osteopenia and osteoporosis.You will like her. She spends time with patients and works up their issues systematically instead of taking shotgun approaches. Another treatment is hormone replacement therapy but it increases one's risk of venous thromboembolism and stroke so for many people, it's not a very good option. Finally, lifestyle changes help. Weight baring exercise improves osteoporosis and stopping smoking and limiting alcohol improves it.

Beware that naturopathy, and homeopathy are not covered by insurance so you will pay out of pocket for everything they do and they can be expensive. I wouldn't advise that route until you exhaust other options first.

To be honest, most primary care physicians can manage and treat osteoporosis well particularly an internal medicine physician. Unless you have pathological fractures or a more serious condition, you don't really need to see an endocrinologist. A good primary care physician (M.D. or D.O.) should be patient and discuss natural remedies and non-pharmacologic remedies with you. Not every patient elects pharmacologic treatment and most good physicians understand this and are willing to manage patients in this manner as long as the patient is aware of the risks and accepts those risks by not electing pharmacologic treatments. They don't require a fancy title like "holistic M.D." or "functional medicine M.D." to practice this way. This is just called "Good Doctor" Unfortunately, there are not a lot of them in the city and the ones who do practice this way are really busy. This is what I mean when I say it's more important to find a patient and methodical doctor than one who necessarily came out of a certain program. I know a lot of doctors who trained at famous programs who have no patience and will not treat patients with respect or work up problems(ie do their job); they want to see a high volume of patients and will shuffle every one off to a subspecialist after a 5 minute visit. I get annoyed because I'll get referrals for management of lipids(cholesterol)...something a primary care physician can and should have managed. However, Lori is really good if you insist on seeing an endocrinologist.

Last edited by azriverfan.; 01-25-2012 at 10:35 AM..
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:04 AM
 
11,523 posts, read 14,561,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
A good primary care physician (M.D. or D.O.) should be patient and discuss natural remedies and non-pharmacologic remedies with you. Not every patient elects pharmacologic treatment and most good physicians understand this and are willing to manage patients in this manner as long as the patient is aware of the risks and accepts those risks by not electing pharmacologic treatments. They don't require a fancy title like "holistic M.D." or "functional medicine M.D." to practice this way. This is just called "Good Doctor" Unfortunately, there are not a lot of them in the city and the ones who do practice this way are really busy.
How many primary care physicians are "patient" and will "discuss natural remedies and non-pharmacologic remedies" with someone?

Most MD's aren't trained that way. And, few have much good solid knowledge about alternatives. Because they don't have expertise in alternatives, they disparage the whole field. Not all, but most. Also, integrative MD's or call them holistic or whatever usually will work WITH the patient, not in a patriarchal fashion of doctor knows best. They usually don't have the obnoxious MD personalities that most have. And, they can be extremely knowledgeable about good, solid alternatives, not fluff approaches either, if you find the right one.

I actually prefer MD's over naturopaths because of my experiences, but finding one who is the right match isn't easy.

Last edited by Nanny Goat; 01-25-2012 at 11:12 AM..
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
19,357 posts, read 27,562,622 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix lady View Post
How many primary care physicians are "patient" and will "discuss natural remedies and non-pharmacologic remedies" with someone?

Most MD's aren't trained that way. And, few have much good solid knowledge about alternatives. Because they don't have expertise in alternatives, they disparage the whole field. Not all, but most. Also, integrative MD's or call them holistic or whatever usually will work WITH the patient, not in a patriarchal fashion of doctor knows best. They usually don't have the obnoxious MD personalities that most have. And, they can be extremely knowledgeable about good, solid alternatives, not fluff approaches either, if you find the right one.

I actually prefer MD's over naturopaths because of my experiences, but finding one who is the right match isn't easy.
AZRIVERFAN - i wish this board had included you in the winners of the recent "most valuable poster contest. " Those who frequent the AZ forum are lucky to have you. Thank you.

As for finding a good, open minded, patient doctor (MD or OD) yes, it's difficult. From personal experience with more doctors than someone my age should have had to deal with, I will say that the best odds of finding that kind of physician is to look for the younger ones. They tend to have smaller practices, are not worn down by the crap the insurance companies put them through, are still excited about what they are doing, and have often have been trained by medical schools that have included more homeopathic methodology in their training.

I would also mention that one highly rated medical school has always practiced a homeopathic approach to medicine - in its training of medical students, residents and in its entire hospital - Hahnemann Hospital in Philadelphia. If you can find a doctor who did their training there, you'll have an excellent chance of getting one with the attitude you descrube.
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Old 01-25-2012, 11:48 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Phoenix lady View Post
How many primary care physicians are "patient" and will "discuss natural remedies and non-pharmacologic remedies" with someone?
The patient is ultimately the decision maker and physicians are consultants. Many patients come up to me and tell me they don't want to be placed on statins. I'm required to discuss the risks of avoiding them but respect their decision to do so and try to work with them. I'll put them on red rice yeast (which is essentially a statin in unprocessed form). Physicians deal with this ALL THE TIME. You don't know how many patients tell me "Doc, I don't want a cath, I'm 75, if I die tomorrow so be it" I am required to respect their decision. I can't force a patient to undergo any treatment.

Quote:
Most MD's aren't trained that way.
ALL physicians are trained with the concept that patients have autonomy and can refuse treatments. As long as the patient accepts risks of failing to undergo a particular intervention whether it be medical or procedural, physicians must honor it. And it's true, we don't have much formal training with alternative therapies but many alternative therapies are becoming more mainstream and physicians have to learn about them because many have adverse reactions or affect other medications the patient is taking. For example, Gingko affects bleeding time and people who are on that in addition to Coumadin can be extremely supratherapeutic.

Quote:
Also, integrative MD's or call them holistic or whatever usually will work WITH the patient, not in a patriarchal fashion of doctor knows best. They usually don't have the obnoxious MD personalities that most have. And, they can be extremely knowledgeable about good, solid alternatives, not fluff approaches either, if you find the right one.
That is just fancy marketing but there is no formal ACGME fellowship called "integrative medicine" in which they complete a 2 year fellowship and become licensed in the field. If anyone wants to call themselves that to lure patients they can. It makes no difference. A quality primary care physician should respect a patient's autonomy and try to work with their patients and not be patriarchal. But in medicine, it's a two way streak. Patients have to respect physicians and realize they don't know as much as they do because they googled something before they came in. It's a relationship just like any other and respect has to flow both ways. Just you have patriarchal doctors, you have patients who think their physician is Burger King and they can have it their way. It doesn't work like that. In my experience, like attracts like. If you treat your patients with respect, they do the same. Oddly enough, the rude doctors tend to attract rude patients. LOL

Quote:
I actually prefer MD's over naturopaths because of my experiences, but finding one who is the right match isn't easy.
Yes, that we agree on. And the ones who are good usually don't accept new patients unfortunately because they are full. But that doesn't mean they don't exist because new grads come into the marketplace all the time and if some patients were willing to take a risk and see one of them, they might be pleasantly surprised.

Last edited by azriverfan.; 01-25-2012 at 11:56 AM..
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Old 01-25-2012, 03:42 PM
 
10,719 posts, read 20,207,210 times
Reputation: 10019
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix lady View Post
How many primary care physicians are "patient" and will "discuss natural remedies and non-pharmacologic remedies" with someone?

Most MD's aren't trained that way. And, few have much good solid knowledge about alternatives. Because they don't have expertise in alternatives, they disparage the whole field. Not all, but most. Also, integrative MD's or call them holistic or whatever usually will work WITH the patient, not in a patriarchal fashion of doctor knows best. They usually don't have the obnoxious MD personalities that most have. And, they can be extremely knowledgeable about good, solid alternatives, not fluff approaches either, if you find the right one.

I actually prefer MD's over naturopaths because of my experiences, but finding one who is the right match isn't easy.
I wanted to mention one more thing. If there is an alternative treatment you would like to try or read about, discuss it with your physician. Educate your physician. I've learned a lot from my patients and researched it for them to make certain the treatment was safe and didn't pose harm to them. I want to know what you are taking because it could have adverse effects when combined with other medication or pose harm.

Last edited by azriverfan.; 01-25-2012 at 04:13 PM..
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:51 PM
 
3 posts, read 10,671 times
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Thank you everyone, such good options! I will check into the endo in N. Phoenix, unfortuantely I live in the East Valley, but will certainly consider the drive. I have had a DEXA, 2-5 hip, and all other #'s tumbling also. Have taken nasal Calcitonin for years, but is not working now. I have read through practically all the NOF(National Osteoporosis Foundation) posts, and Lara Pizzorno's recent book "Your Bones". Had my PCP do Vit D, PTH and calcium blood tests. He wanted me to take reclast, just cannot do that after reading the horror stories on NOF. He had not heard of strontium, (not the European RX version or the strontium citrate in USA), nor familiar with Vit K2-M4, K2-M7. (Calcium and Vit D was recommended), and my calcium was already high normal and had never taken supplemental calcium. Therein lies the problem, will I get in trouble with adding more calcium and high doses of VitD - Will the Vit K that all the internet doctors are recommending do me harm, I sure as heck don't know. I want a real doctor to help me through this, it is scary being out here on your own. Every action has a reaction, and being under the watchful eye of a caring physician is the way to go. Plus, my insurance pays for this way, not at all for naturopathic, and some of the alternative doctors advertising are-questionable. Thank you everyone for your input, I should have put more info in to start, I had no idea the replies would be so detailed. You all have kind hearts. Azriverfan, are you taking new patients?
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