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Old 04-21-2012, 01:00 PM
 
2,879 posts, read 4,105,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by khuntrevor View Post
According to Zillow; I am up 185% since October 2010. 85014. Condo bought in 11-2009 is only up 89%, it is grossing over 30% with ease.

185%, not 285%.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
17,343 posts, read 20,506,887 times
Reputation: 9052
Quote:
Originally Posted by khuntrevor View Post
85338: median household income 58,300. And a whopping 19% of people over 25 graduated from college. That gets you subsidized housing in a lot of places......perhaps if you add it to the median income in FH, you will get over 100K.
Median household income in Goodyear is 72K per city data. 85338 is only part of Goodyear and includes the original townsite which is a lot of mobiles, travel trailers, illegals and such. In my subd, Estrella, everyone is rich!

Data sources:


http://www.city-data.com/city/Goodyear-Arizona.html

http://www.ci.goodyear.az.us/Documen...Home/View/5857

by zip:

http://homes.point2.com/Neighborhood...ographics.aspx

If you have other data, I don't care. It is what it is and Goodyear is, IMO, the best choice to live in the west valley.
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Old 04-21-2012, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Phoenix AZ
3,163 posts, read 4,024,716 times
Reputation: 3655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Pickering View Post
Agents, like stock brokers, take there share on both ends. Buying or selling. They have a bad habit of coloring the market. And those property descriptions. What a hoot. I had no idea my simple comment would create such a firestorm.
I got my agent license because I couldn't find anyone I truly trusted to fully represent my interests above anyone else's. It worked for me- my first commission easily covered the expense, & as an agent I had full access to all of the data necessary to make a smart decision that worked for me. I later found a place for my brother, my parents, and most recently bought a couple of rentals.

Because I had the license anyway, I've helped co-workers & friends find houses, & there is really zero financial motivation for me in those transactions, even if I kept the "full" commission. It really isn't that much money, and the hassle is much greater than even I expected. The undertone, even from those I've known for years is that I'm making "easy" money on their backs, and I really don't enjoy it a bit. In the future, I'm a lot less likely to volunteer to help in those situations, just due to that greasy undertone.

I'd never try to support myself by doing real-estate due to the public perception of the trade, even if I conduct myself as a true fiduciary. I am blessed with other skills that will pay my bills, skills that won't get me painted in the public eye as a "sleazy" person. The system is definitely broken, but painting every agent as "snidely whiplash" will/has run many great people out of the trade, and only leads to those without ethics or morals rising to the top.

If you truly feel that there are no ethical agents, you can certainly do as I did and cut them completely out of the loop. But once you get "inside" the system, you'll likely find that much of that perception isn't reality, and that the sleazy part of real-estate isn't all agents. Title companies make a ton of money "insuring" against a risk that they have already determined doesn't exist, loan officers often make more money than the agent, and require the borrower to jump through all the hoops themselves- effectively bringing the "whole package" to the officer on a silver platter.

There are many people sticking their hands out and taking a big fistful of your cash in a real-estate transaction, and most of them aren't working nearly as hard as the agent(should be).

Enjoy your jabs, but keep them in mind when you have to buy or sell real-estate, the people those opinions run out of the business might be the folks you would really rather have on your side.
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,066 posts, read 8,336,247 times
Reputation: 3676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippyman View Post
...I'd never try to support myself by doing real-estate due to the public perception of the trade, even if I conduct myself as a true fiduciary. I am blessed with other skills that will pay my bills, skills that won't get me painted in the public eye as a "sleazy" person...
Part of the problem with the RE industry is the low bar to entry, and the broker monthly fee model.

I'm not referring to dishonest agents, because dishonest people exist in every industry.

I'm referring to lazy and incompetent agents. When they come out of RE school they know enough about the real estate industry to pass the state exam. That's all; once the students are in the school the instructors tell them that is all they will know, because the school is only geared to teach them to pass the state exam.

Once they get their license is when the learning how to do the job begins. That is expensive because they should work with a mentor for a year as well as take the classes such as the classes in the GRI (Graduate Real Institute) program, and others over the first 3 years so they can really learn the business.

However, many of the new agents thought RE was a get rich quick job, and when they find out that the national average income for Realtors is around $35,000, and that they need to pay for more "expensive" education, and that the expenses of running an independent contractor business are high, many of these agents try to get by without the education, and many are out of the business within the first two years.

The big box companies recruit these agents from the schools so they can collect monthly fees. 100 agents paying a monthly fee of $200/month is big money, $20,000/mo. It doesn't matter if the agent isn't productive. Any sales they make is icing on the cake.

Regarding "sleazy", I don't think that's a correct representation. I believe lazy and incompetent is more representative.
  • Lazy because they did not realize the amount of work that is required, so they take short cuts.
  • Incompetent because they thought they knew more than they do, and did not pay for more training.
I'm one of the fortunate ones who work in the business because I love real estate. I retired from a wonderful career as an airline pilot; and don't have to work. I choose to work because I can't sit still doing nothing, so why not do something I love, and strive to be the best at what I do.

I don't worry about what some people may think of agents in general because I am comfortable with myself and know that when I meet people they will judge me by who I am, and not who the other agents are.

As I begin to hire agents, I will only choose experienced agents with good customer relation skills so they will maintain the reputation that I've earned for my company.

A partial fix to the incompetency issue would be to require around 18 units of college Real Estate courses, such as they have at ASU where one can get a minor in RE with 18 units. (I took 12 units back in the late 70's when I was involved with real estate investing at the time.)

A potential fix for agent laziness is for brokers to pay more attention to what their agents are doing with their mls listing sheets and documents.
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:25 PM
 
2,879 posts, read 4,105,776 times
Reputation: 1093
Ziprealty is in trouble for not paying minimum wage in California. Captain has hit it on the head with the office fees. That in itself is a huge business.
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Old 04-21-2012, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Phoenix AZ
3,163 posts, read 4,024,716 times
Reputation: 3655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
Part of the problem with the RE industry is the low bar to entry, and the broker monthly fee model.

I'm not referring to dishonest agents, because dishonest people exist in every industry.

I'm referring to lazy and incompetent agents. When they come out of RE school they know enough about the real estate industry to pass the state exam. That's all; once the students are in the school the instructors tell them that is all they will know, because the school is only geared to teach them to pass the state exam.

Once they get their license is when the learning how to do the job begins. That is expensive because they should work with a mentor for a year as well as take the classes such as the classes in the GRI (Graduate Real Institute) program, and others over the first 3 years so they can really learn the business.

However, many of the new agents thought RE was a get rich quick job, and when they find out that the national average income for Realtors is around $35,000, and that they need to pay for more "expensive" education, and that the expenses of running an independent contractor business are high, many of these agents try to get by without the education, and many are out of the business within the first two years.

The big box companies recruit these agents from the schools so they can collect monthly fees. 100 agents paying a monthly fee of $200/month is big money, $20,000/mo. It doesn't matter if the agent isn't productive. Any sales they make is icing on the cake.

Regarding "sleazy", I don't think that's a correct representation. I believe lazy and incompetent is more representative.
  • Lazy because they did not realize the amount of work that is required, so they take short cuts.
  • Incompetent because they thought they knew more than they do, and did not pay for more training.
I'm one of the fortunate ones who work in the business because I love real estate. I retired from a wonderful career as an airline pilot; and don't have to work. I choose to work because I can't sit still doing nothing, so why not do something I love, and strive to be the best at what I do.

I don't worry about what some people may think of agents in general because I am comfortable with myself and know that when I meet people they will judge me by who I am, and not who the other agents are.

As I begin to hire agents, I will only choose experienced agents with good customer relation skills so they will maintain the reputation that I've earned for my company.

A partial fix to the incompetency issue would be to require around 18 units of college Real Estate courses, such as they have at ASU where one can get a minor in RE with 18 units. (I took 12 units back in the late 70's when I was involved with real estate investing at the time.)

A potential fix for agent laziness is for brokers to pay more attention to what their agents are doing with their mls listing sheets and documents.
I guess we'll have to disagree about this issue, Bill- I really don't see any value in requiring more education. Just like almost anything to do with the automotive industry, there's a "taint" to the real-estate business, and anyone involved in it.

Why are your top-performers going to get a degree that earns them public scorn? If they really are skilled, capable & hard working, I can think of a half-dozen other jobs that pay better and would go over better when a potential "dad-in-law" is interviewing them. And, frankly- excuse me if I bristle at the notion that getting the re license means " I know nothing". The re class didn't teach me how to function in life or business, and neither did my time in college. I learned how to live and conduct myself in business outside of a classroom, from "mentors" who never called themselves that- to me they were bosses or successful people who shared their knowledge & skills.
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,066 posts, read 8,336,247 times
Reputation: 3676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippyman View Post
I guess we'll have to disagree about this issue, Bill- I really don't see any value in requiring more education. Just like almost anything to do with the automotive industry, there's a "taint" to the real-estate business, and anyone involved in it.
I'm not sure why you would object to agents being educated in the business they're working in. Just getting the license does not prepare the licensee to work in the real estate industry. The agents who do not get further real estate education, either before or after getting the license, are not going to fare as well; and neither are their clients. The education teaches them much more than one who hasn't had the education can imagine. The RE mentor's job is to give them a faster start in the business, and help the agent to learn how to protect themselves and their clients from being sued; and much more

Quote:
Why are your top-performers going to get a degree that earns them public scorn?
I'm a top performer, and I don't feel that the public scorns me at all. I'm very proud of what I do in the business, and if someone wants to put all agents in the same box, that is their problem; I'm not going to make it mine. The education in RE that I've had, and continue to have, has helped me to be one of the top performers.

There are also many agents in the business that do have degrees; some in RE, business, law, and other fields. Many of the successful ones had education in real estate, or continued to get the RE education after getting their license, by taking the courses and working with mentors.

Quote:
If they really are skilled, capable & hard working, I can think of a half-dozen other jobs that pay better and would go over better when a potential "dad-in-law" is interviewing them.
I think it would be foolish for an individual who loves an industry, no matter what it is, and wants to go into that industry, to avoid a field of work in the hopes of pleasing a future father in law. They shouldn't even have to please their own dad. Each person should work in the profession of their choice, and if others don't like it, that's too bad.

Quote:
And, frankly- excuse me if I bristle at the notion that getting the re license means " I know nothing".
I didn't say you know nothing.

I said when they come out of RE school they know enough about the real estate industry to pass the state exam. That's all; once the students are in the school the instructors tell them that is all they will know, because the school is only geared to teach them to pass the state exam. Once they get their license is when the learning how to do the job begins.
Quote:
The re class didn't teach me how to function in life or business, and neither did my time in college. I learned how to live and conduct myself in business outside of a classroom, from "mentors" who never called themselves that- to me they were bosses or successful people who shared their knowledge & skills.
Of course the RE class did not teach you how to function in life or business. That is not what the RE license course is for. It is to teach people enough about real estate to pass the state exam.
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Old 04-21-2012, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Phoenix AZ
3,163 posts, read 4,024,716 times
Reputation: 3655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
I'm not sure why you would object to agents being educated in the business they're working in. Just getting the license does not prepare the licensee to work in the real estate industry. The agents who do not get further real estate education, either before or after getting the license, are not going to fare as well; and neither are their clients. The education teaches them much more than one who hasn't had the education can imagine. The RE mentor's job is to give them a faster start in the business, and help the agent to learn how to protect themselves and their clients from being sued; and much more

I'm a top performer, and I don't feel that the public scorns me at all. I'm very proud of what I do in the business, and if someone wants to put all agents in the same box, that is their problem; I'm not going to make it mine. The education in RE that I've had, and continue to have, has helped me to be one of the top performers.

There are also many agents in the business that do have degrees; some in RE, business, law, and other fields. Many of the successful ones had education in real estate, or continued to get the RE education after getting their license, by taking the courses and working with mentors.

I think it would be foolish for an individual who loves an industry, no matter what it is, and wants to go into that industry, to avoid a field of work in the hopes of pleasing a future father in law. They shouldn't even have to please their own dad. Each person should work in the profession of their choice, and if others don't like it, that's too bad.

I didn't say you know nothing.

I said when they come out of RE school they know enough about the real estate industry to pass the state exam. That's all; once the students are in the school the instructors tell them that is all they will know, because the school is only geared to teach them to pass the state exam. Once they get their license is when the learning how to do the job begins.
Of course the RE class did not teach you how to function in life or business. That is not what the RE license course is for. It is to teach people enough about real estate to pass the state exam.
Again, I may not have expressed myself correctly, but you've mentioned "mentoring and training", and the biggest sharks in the re business tout thir "training" & "mentoring" as to why they should get the first 80% of a new agent's commissions. Those are the brokers getting wealthy off the agents work. Those are the brokers who sell "magic beans" to new agents, through their "super-secret-path-to-wealth" in re sales.

Until ASU offers a course in "answer your freakin' phone", they have nothin to offer the lazy agent, and a good agent doesn't need to waste his time in that particular class.

What other classes could be offered to a trainee agent? Investment classes? Agent shouldn't be giving investment advice. Home inspection? Agents aren't home inspectors, and don't want that liability. Appraising? Nope, not a good idea either.

The bottom line is, closing a transaction is fairly simple. Brokers & agents want the credit for giving investment advice, knowledge of construction types, repair costs, financing knowledge, timing the market, and even interior design- but no agent wants responsibility for giving that advice when things go sideways.
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:13 AM
 
3,184 posts, read 1,977,862 times
Reputation: 4805
Quote:
I guess we'll have to disagree about this issue, Bill- I really don't see any value in requiring more education.
That is about the worst statement that anyone can make, for people to follow when they go into the real estate business.

When I went into the business, I had 20 years sales experience and had been in both private businesses I worked in and owned and in the corporate world where I was as high as division sales manager for west of the Mississippi. I had learned a long time ago, about the need for training.

Before I licensed up, I spent one year attending classes at a major university, and other privately run classes by national instructors. Did it mean I had a chance to succeed. The training is what made the difference.

My first week in the business, I sold two modern 3 year old brick apartment houses, and the following week working I listed a 16 unit apartment house, and exchanged it as the down payment on a large irrigated farm. Back in 1972 a goal was to join the million dollar club which was selling one million dollars in real estate in a year. I made it that first 2 weeks, and at today's prices it would have not just been $1,000,000 plus but several million dollars. With that I was off and running.

Without that education, I would have been like most agents out there starting out needing a mentor to do the work, etc., and would never have gotten the start I had that first year in the business.

I never even saw, over half the properties I handled. I exchanged real estate as far away as Belize and Costa Rica, as well as around the nation. Some of those transactions had as many as 7 or 8 properties involved in one running exchange transaction. Some of my clients were Americans and British oil people working in Libya, when the Shaw was in power, and with British after he was investing their large incomes in American Income property. One investor was working in Indonesia.

The last properties I handles were exchanging a half built condo development for a very large (over 2,000 acres) irrigated farm, with a total of over $5,000,000. The condo development was owned by a large investment group that had ended up with in a foreclosure. They kept a licensed agent on staff, who called me early one morning and asked if I could get them out of it. I asked if they would exchange for a farm. They like and owned several large farms. I called a broker, that had taken one in exchange who loved developing condo's, and asked him if he wanted this one. By 4 p.m. I had gotten a contract signed by the second broker, and then with the owners of the condo's, and went home. I never saw either property. It was done by phone, and driving 225 miles to get the two contracts signed.

I knew a lot of agents around the nation. I found the ones that did not get educated in the business failed quickly. The successful ones spent the money and time to get educated.

Captain Bill is right, the good ones get an education. The ones that don't fail and are not good representatives to guide buyers and sellers. In nearly 30 years, I never had a contract that was signed on both sides that did not get closed. On the other hand, a friend of mine was running a franchised office, and one month he had 30 contracts written and signed both sides, and only 10% for a total of three closed. They kept failing, because of the lack of knowledge of his agents, and they would not get more education, and really thought they knew it all and were not really trainable.

If you are going to get into the real estate business, get educated and keep getting more education. Find a niche you want to work in, and don't try to sell things you are not qualified to sell. Too many agents seem to try to sell commercial property the same way that they sell homes, as an example. Wrong. They are not the same thing, and you have to have superior knowledge to move into commercial property.
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Old 04-22-2012, 06:35 AM
 
1,232 posts, read 1,433,219 times
Reputation: 629
I think more education would be nice simply as a barrier to entry. Right now, anyone can plop down $800 and spend a few hours in class and get licensed, and many do. For most professions, it's not so much what college teaches you but just that it limits entry to those who've shown they can learn and are willing to be persistent and jump through the hoops in a bureaucracy and get to the end.

Then again, most entrepreneurs don't get degrees, and R.E. is very entrepreneurial.
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