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Old 04-07-2012, 11:52 AM
 
9,120 posts, read 9,862,934 times
Reputation: 6598

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondurant View Post
It's a "success" if you have access to it and use on a regular basis but the cost to build and operate, I'm sure, exceeds the amount of money it actually brings in. Not trying to sound like a Negative Nancy (I actually like the rail) but it's not worth it for many Valley residents.
Yeah, but you have to start somewhere. Rome wasn't built in a day. You can't have instant lightrail for the entire Valley in 6 years. It doesn't work that way. The basic infrastructure is in place and they are going to expand it over time. Had we not made sacrafices and got something in places years ago, we would NEVER have a light rail. Look at L.A., it's not feasible now. Thankfully Phoenix was proactive and progressive.
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Old 04-07-2012, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Tempe, AZ
418 posts, read 651,620 times
Reputation: 263
I only see the Phoenix area benefiting from a progressive approach to public transit. It will help to get a grip on the sprawl.
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Old 04-07-2012, 06:23 PM
 
Location: downtown phoenix
772 posts, read 650,403 times
Reputation: 895
it's very hard to quantify how much revenue something like this will generate. as far as fares go, it will never pay for itself. the benefit of projects like this are improving quality of life for residents.this in turn has a long lasting and wide spread effect on many things, none of which can be tied directly to the project itself, but do have great economic impact for years if not generations to come.
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Old 04-11-2012, 01:24 AM
Status: "NIMBYs be gone!!!" (set 14 days ago)
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
3,527 posts, read 4,592,173 times
Reputation: 3195
While I generally favor these kind of mass transit projects, I have a hard time believing that they spur urban growth & development. How many projects have actually broken ground along the light rail line in the last four years??? Very few, if any. Vacant buildings and dilapidated structures still dot the landscape along West Camelback. The Washington/Jefferson corridor is basically a slum area with really no sign of improvement. There have been proposals to build some condo towers on Central Avenue, and enhance after hours activity in the uptown/midtown areas ... but still nothing much happening despite the reports about the economy being in "recovery".

If the streetcar line will help bring back some of the lost business to Mill Avenue, and encourage development on that ugly strip of vacant land on the corner of Ash & Univeristy, it will be great news. However, I'll believe it when I see it!
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:13 AM
 
2,268 posts, read 3,615,572 times
Reputation: 799
Nothing more than a Disneyland ride for tourists.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Avondale and Tempe, Arizona
1,637 posts, read 1,536,696 times
Reputation: 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post
While I generally favor these kind of mass transit projects, I have a hard time believing that they spur urban growth & development. How many projects have actually broken ground along the light rail line in the last four years??? Very few, if any. Vacant buildings and dilapidated structures still dot the landscape along West Camelback. The Washington/Jefferson corridor is basically a slum area with really no sign of improvement. There have been proposals to build some condo towers on Central Avenue, and enhance after hours activity in the uptown/midtown areas ... but still nothing much happening despite the reports about the economy being in "recovery".

If the streetcar line will help bring back some of the lost business to Mill Avenue, and encourage development on that ugly strip of vacant land on the corner of Ash & Univeristy, it will be great news. However, I'll believe it when I see it!
New growth doesn't happen right away, you know the expression about Rome wasn't built in a day.

Land prices in the more urbanized areas are usually more expensive too, most developers want the cheaper deal and they are often in suburban areas.

The main purpose of mass transit is helping people ease their commutes, especially those people without a car or who want to save money on gas, giving them more options besides driving.

I believe light rail and streetcars will encourage development eventually, not right away. The double-dip recession put a big damper on construction, don't expect the recovery to jumpstart the economy to what it was 10-15 years ago.
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Avondale and Tempe, Arizona
1,637 posts, read 1,536,696 times
Reputation: 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by roosevelt View Post
Nothing more than a Disneyland ride for tourists.
Not at all.

Urban areas need more than just cars and a few bus routes for commuting options, and most people want these additional options.

The streetcars should not be compared to the thrill rides in Disneyland, they are anything but.
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Old 04-11-2012, 04:56 PM
 
2,268 posts, read 3,615,572 times
Reputation: 799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java Jolt View Post
Not at all.

Urban areas need more than just cars and a few bus routes for commuting options, and most people want these additional options.

The streetcars should not be compared to the thrill rides in Disneyland, they are anything but.
How about the People Mover?
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Avondale and Tempe, Arizona
1,637 posts, read 1,536,696 times
Reputation: 1318
Quote:
Originally Posted by roosevelt View Post
How about the People Mover?
People movers are similar to monorails or skytrains, not the same thing.

This is a street-level trolley, similar to light rail only more scaled back. It shoudn't be compared at all to a ride at a funpark.
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
17,355 posts, read 20,521,273 times
Reputation: 9063
Quote:
Originally Posted by Java Jolt View Post
New growth doesn't happen right away, you know the expression about Rome wasn't built in a day.

Land prices in the more urbanized areas are usually more expensive too, most developers want the cheaper deal and they are often in suburban areas.

The main purpose of mass transit is helping people ease their commutes, especially those people without a car or who want to save money on gas, giving them more options besides driving.

I believe light rail and streetcars will encourage development eventually, not right away. The double-dip recession put a big damper on construction, don't expect the recovery to jumpstart the economy to what it was 10-15 years ago.
New freeway corridors do a lot more to spur economic growth than light rail lines will ever do. I'll buy your argument when they decide to open a new mall because it is served by a nearby light rail line. About the only development that light rail is going to bring is a restaurant or two, a bar, a pot dispensary, and a t-shirt shop.
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