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When I was born in 82 I lived in the projects located on the southside of Guadalupe. I lived there for five years and although very young I have very pleasent memories of that time. I dont remember all the hispanics standing along Avenida del yaqui (priest). I asked my mother, who is from Guadalupe, how it was growing up there and she speaks of it as a really cultural place. Yaqui native americans. Now I read all this about Illegal Mexicans living in Guad. but it wasn't always like that. It seems that Mexican Imigrants have migrated to this area because of its homey feel. Now its grown to the point were it seems that thats all the people that live there. My feelings of Guad is that its gotten out of hand as far as the gangs and drugs. I feel that the town is being used as a point of distrabution for drugs and other criminal activities. That, to me, is hard to say but I find it true. Sad really, I know that there are at least five gangs in Guad. and that they can, if provoked, be very deadly to anybody crossing them. Now thats the dark side but the good side is still there. One just has to look past the graffiti and the gangbangers and see that yes there is a Exellent produce store (Farmers Market) and now a Family Dollor store. There is a place right next to Family Dollor called Mercado (market) were they sell a lot of products from Mexico. Its kinda like going to Mexico except its NOT Mexico. The poeple in guadalupe are cultural and rich the Yaqui traditions. I'll leave you with that and hope that one can see the cultural part of the Town of Guadalupe.
Well when I think of Guadalupe , I do not think of the negatives mentioned here. My first impression of the town came from the magazine Arizona Highways. They had an article about Guadalupe and in particular focus was the Guadalupe Farmers Market you just mentioned. Actually , I was there last year and stop purposely in Guadalupe to show my family from Sweden what Old Mexico would look like without the risk of driving down into Mexico nowadays. I just wanted to say to everyone that we enjoyed the visit to the Farmers Market again. Here's a positive write up and the Market's own website by the family who runs it. Seems they have a couple stores , the bigger being in Mesa. Actually this family are the former owners , but the orinial store is still the same and looks like the original , just bigger.
This is all true, and crewbank, I agree with much or your statement. I am hispanic and I am 6th generation Arizonan and know many other Mexican Americans that grew up in Guadalupe before the 1980's. I'm 27, but my mother and grandmother tell about great fairs and markets. Now however, they have been replaced by illegals and crime. Most of the hispanics that helped establish the area have moved on and moved up as they were never able to establish a safe, largely hispanic middle class neighborhood like Villa Rica, Valle El Dorado, and Copper Canyon in the West Valley.
But to clarify some statements made by crewbank that seem inflammatory towards whites, this area was Spain 300 years ago. Mexico didn't become an independent nation until 1810. Because the Natives, Spain, and Mexico lost territory does not make it right to lay claim to something that is now the U.S. It took a while for the French to accept that Germany holds land that was French hundreds of years ago, or Germans who hundreds of years ago new Danzig and Warsaw and part of a much more vast German nation. But that was the past, we must learn to live in the present and to live for the future while still remembering atrocities that occured all those years ago. But, do not hold contempt for people today who are where they are because of past circumstances. Lets learn to live with what history has shaped and make things better; not worse or more hateful.
And my final thought, demographically speaking, whites will not be a minority in 15 years...50??? Perhaps, but by that time races may look very different because of mixing. Currently, only 33% of the U.S. is minority based. 13% of hispanic origin, 12% black, 2% native american, 3% asian, and 3% other. Nonetheless, we should all learn to live with each other and tolerate each others differences. I am perfectly comfortable being uncomfortable in this world; being amongst others not like myself!
Well put, fcorrales, and I stand corrected about the timeline and exact stats of the area. However, I stand firmly by my outrage with ANY area resident who thinks they can disrespect latinos, natives, or any other group simply because they have a problem with the culture or economic status of that group (crime is universally disliked across racial lines, and a non-issue in that respect). I am white/native american, and I do feel like I belong in this community despite past injustices. However, you know as well as I do that there is a strong tide of hate among a minority of anglos toward people of color, and immigration has become a conduit for sanctioned prejudice against people like the Yaquis who are, in fact, refugees from a Mexican genocide in the 19th century, and not sympathizers with that country at all.
I don't think this forum is the place for this conversation, so I'll stop here! However, I would urge you to NOT be complacent in the face of racism and intolerance from ANYONE against ANYONE. Racism still exists, and these cowards and closet perpetuators of hatred need to be called out and confronted in plain view. Thanks again fcorrales for a very well-written response.
First of all, since some Arizonans are both too ignorant and illiterate to figure this one out on their own, Guadalupe is legally an indian reservation, and has NO direct affiliation with Mexico whatsoever. The influx of criminals from anywhere is a plague to the native people there as much as it is to the white fascists who ran them off of their land in the first place. I do community health work there, and most of the legal, native residents (Yaquis) are in favor of law enforcement crackdowns, but would rather not be profiled or harassed, Arpaio's MO, unfortunately.
Second, to all of you entitled white transplants...where are YOU from that you think you have any legal claim in this desert whatsoever? This place was Mexico 300 years before your pale, manifest destiny families ever came here, and indian land thousands of years before that. Native people have a legal stake in this land, and I would ask that you consider all of the white suburbanites who can't control their pothead kids as the reason drugs are coming here in the first place. Read a history book and don't pretend like you and your family have a birthright to this place unless you're native american. Is this hateful arrogance how you want your children and grandchildren to be regarded when whites are a minority in 15 years (Or less!!!)?
If you have a problem with the law, talk to a lawmaker. The current federal immigration system stinks, YES! but don't blame poor, brown people just because they're easy targets. This whole thread is shameful... although, I do want to thank those of you who have taken the time to get to know Guadalupe as it really is, the home of Yaqui people who are kind, law-abiding, and 100% legal! Criminals are not welcome in any community, and this is no exception. A small hateful minority of Arizonans should "go home" to Europe if they have issues with native americans.
Play your pathetic guilt trip elsewhere, please.
My father's family lost almost everything in Hungary 60 years ago due to Communism. Did he just roll over and play 'poor me'? Hell no! He fled there ca. 1948; lived as a DP in Germany till he got a sponsor and legally immigrated to the USA.
The difference between certain cultures; hell, different individuals within the same culture is that some folks have a 'can do' attitude whereas others play 'poor me'.
Yes; Mexico got its butt beaten--------in 1848.
Germany suffered much more grievously just 63 years ago and that truncated land rebuilt itself from a ruined junk heap back into a socio-economic powerhouse within one generation. Note too that Germany lost about 8-10% of its population which were disproportionally its young men along with half of its territory (former East Germany and lands further east).
So; what is Mexico's excuse for being so damn poor and corrupt? The country has tremendous natural resources and arguably a better climate than the continental USA.
Saying that Mexicans are 'Hispanic' does not cut it either: Spain today is affluent and last time I checked, Spaniards are Hispanic.
And two other countries just 2 generations ago that were poor are now extremely well off---------Ireland and Italy.
ArizonaBear, I respectfully disagree. "Can do" can go a long way, but it can't counter bad policy...do you have any idea how Mexicans are naturalized? Basically, they're not...the quota is filled and applications are "backlogged" ad infinitum, as of like 20 years ago. Plus, they're brown. Europeans (including Spaniards) are mostly white. Virtually all other "hispanic" countries have issues with poverty and malnutrition, just like Mexico.
I wish you were right, that they were just lazy, but if that were the case than 3 billion of the world's below-the-poverty-line non-white population are going to great lengths of laziness to starve their children to death. All of the immigrants I know, brown, black, white, and legal and not, are busting their humps to feed their families. Thanks for the lecture on the value of hard work, though. Got any other sage wisdom for our "lazy" friends south of the border..."a peso saved is a peso earned," "money doesn't grow on trees..." i can feel our immigration woes fading already! You should run for office.
My father's family lost almost everything in Hungary 60 years ago due to Communism. Did he just roll over and play 'poor me'? Hell no! He fled there ca. 1948; lived as a DP in Germany till he got a sponsor and legally immigrated to the USA.
The difference between certain cultures; hell, different individuals within the same culture is that some folks have a 'can do' attitude whereas others play 'poor me'.
Yes; Mexico got its butt beaten--------in 1848.
Germany suffered much more grievously just 63 years ago and that truncated land rebuilt itself from a ruined junk heap back into a socio-economic powerhouse within one generation. Note too that Germany lost about 8-10% of its population which were disproportionally its young men along with half of its territory (former East Germany and lands further east).
So; what is Mexico's excuse for being so damn poor and corrupt? The country has tremendous natural resources and arguably a better climate than the continental USA.
Saying that Mexicans are 'Hispanic' does not cut it either: Spain today is affluent and last time I checked, Spaniards are Hispanic.
And two other countries just 2 generations ago that were poor are now extremely well off---------Ireland and Italy.
Well first of all Spainards aren't hispanic since a hispanic is a latino born in America. they are latin though.
Second of all, most Immigrants from mexico that I know have at least two jobs or work for 12 hrs a day with minimum wage. if you call that lazy then I don't want to see hard working people. Second of all now a days becoming a citizen cost much more then back in the 1920's. and when you could barely afford to pay for basic everyday items like food, clothes then how could you afford to pay this extra fee just for naturalization.
Traveler guy, Spaniards are Hispanic, they are the original Hispanics actually. The word Hispanic was derived from the Roman territory that was the Iberian Peninsula a.k.a. Spain. It was called Hispania (latin) by the Romans.
I remember when we first moved to Arizona. We lived on the Tempe , Phx Border around 48th. We could have went to Nevitt or Frank. My Parents saw Frank was a bilingual school, and put us there. They thought it was a school that tought English kids spanish.
In fact it was the other way around,lol We came out of it though learning spanish,lol
I was nine then. It was 1980. I have nothing but fond memories of that school. The teachers and the kids were great. There was no prejudice against me for not being hispanic. They had fun cultural music programs.
ArizonaBear, I respectfully disagree. "Can do" can go a long way, but it can't counter bad policy...do you have any idea how Mexicans are naturalized? Basically, they're not...the quota is filled and applications are "backlogged" ad infinitum, as of like 20 years ago. Plus, they're brown. Europeans (including Spaniards) are mostly white. Virtually all other "hispanic" countries have issues with poverty and malnutrition, just like Mexico.
I wish you were right, that they were just lazy, but if that were the case than 3 billion of the world's below-the-poverty-line non-white population are going to great lengths of laziness to starve their children to death. All of the immigrants I know, brown, black, white, and legal and not, are busting their humps to feed their families. Thanks for the lecture on the value of hard work, though. Got any other sage wisdom for our "lazy" friends south of the border..."a peso saved is a peso earned," "money doesn't grow on trees..." i can feel our immigration woes fading already! You should run for office.
Remember though that Mexico is the 14th wealthiest country in the world-------its per capita income is over $12K a year.
The biggest problem SOB (besides flagrant racism against its 'brown' citizens) is its ghastly rich/poor divide.
That stated: the Mx people are stepping up and making a serious effort to control their out of control population growth------and, succeeding
The birthrate SOB in the mid 1960's was about 7 children per woman-------today, it is under 2.4 kids. Replacement level to maintain population levels is 2.1 children.
IMHO: Mexico is at its 'tipping point' much like Spain, S Korea, Italy, etc. 30-40 years prior crossing from Third World to First World status.
That is a very sad and ignorant statement to make. It sounds like you need to move to Scottsdale so you don't feel threatened by being outside of your element. I am sure there would be no love lost if you never visited Guadalupe. And then you wouldn't feel scared by traveling somewhere unfamiliar.
So should we all just surrender when our community is being over run by illegals? You may not like the poster's opinion but he is entitled to it and it is shared by many. The apologists like to say it's not about illegals but we can read and it is quite apparent that they are responsible for a disproportionate amount of crime. Also most commit fraud on a daily basis with fake IDs, no driver's license or insurance, tax evasion, etc.
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