diversity? Racism? (Phoenix: budget, jobs, sick)

[bigtallredhead]

Originally Posted by Arizona Annie

I agree with much of what you are saying. The problem with learning English IMO is not those who want to learn it and just don't have the resources (money, available classes, tools from the local library etc.) but that so many have no desire whatsoever to ever learn English. Another problem we have which is a direct result of this lack of desire is the children hear only the language of their parents until they start school. 5 or 6 years of a language other than English and they are ill prepared for school. ELL (English Language Learners) start school with a disadvantage. Much money is then spent teaching these children English so they can start to learn the basics they need to continue with their education. Fines are imposed (and paid by the taxpayers) if they fail to meet the requirements of no child left behind and schools are marked as underperforming because the test scores are below level because ELL students scores are included in the mix. There are many issues which have arisen from just this one major issue. This is off topic though, so I don't want to go any further into it, but I just wanted to explain why many people are upset about those who decide not to learn the English language.

I too, am very distressed by the bigotry (not racism) I see directed at all Hispanics. I've seen the same thing you have, many of our Hispanic legal immigrants are very upset about the recent antics of some of the illegal population. I also know some very hard working illegal aliens who are just as upset, and I am very worried about what might become of them come January 1st with the sanctions against employers. I realize, however, that we can no longer afford the masses streaming in over the border and we simply must do something or our personal economic stablity will be in serious jeopardy. I'm not one to blame all our ills on illegal immigration, so please don't think I am saying that, but some things are just too obvious to ignore.

Ok, 3 broad point's.

#1: -I think one of the reasons for refusing to learn English by many is largely just that a large % of illegal immigrants don't really like it hear and are only hear for the money or even for what they see as their children's well being. A lot also come and go, many working hear for a number of years and then going back, -a large % of those come still don't settle hear permanently. Many of those who do settle hear really don't identify with the U.S. at all and are often at least somewhat hostile in fact.

However, there are also severe waiting lists for Affordable English classes, far more would like them then can receive them right now. But that itself is a symptom of TOO MUCH immigration, and of large scale ILLEGAL migration especially.

These issues something you will always get whenever you have large scale illegal immigration from ANYWHERE, not just with Mexico. That's one of the main reasons why this issue (illegal migration) is such a big problem.

Point # 2: I agree with you about the public school issue. I also think illegal immigration causes some serious overall economic problems as well. However, more then anything I think it (illegal immigration from Mexico specifically, -about 4 out of ten illegal in the U.S. as a whole are NOT Mexican, many are visa over stayers.) is a symptom of serious underlying economic, social, and political problems, in BOTH the united states AND in Mexico.

The idea that we must always have economic "growth", one, -a system built on that principle is NOT sustainable in the long run.

Point # 3: More then 60% of people of Mexican origin or decent who identify themselves as such in the census within Arizona, as well as the U.S. as a whole, were born in the U.S.A. This includes almost half of the Adult population as well as most children. Regardless of one's opinions about birthright citizenship (and I think their are valid arguments on both sides, though I personally do support it continuing), those born here are still NOT immigrants, but Mexican-Americans or Americans of Mexican decent, or whatever ethic or other identity they may have. But they are americans regardless. -Many have actualy lived in the U.S. for many generations, often going back to the early 20'th century during the 1900-1929 period when a large number of mexican settled in the U.S. southwest and southern great plains, especially after the secund mexican revolution.

Unlike California and most parts of Arizona or Texas that had either only minimal or no spanish settlement, -New Mexico, Southern Colorado, and parts of south Texas have a large number of descendants of the early spanish settlers of the region, often blended with local Indian tribes as well as latter Anglo americans, during new Spain and mexican times, as well as continuing in the 1800's after the Mexican American war. Those areas actualy got a large among of rural spanish settlements which still exist today.

-Emil.

[internat]

Not all Persians are Muslim. Muslims aren't all of the same ethnicity and race. Did you really experience discrimination because of the way you look?

Some Iranians are relatively fair such as Ali Pahlavan. See the link below.

http://www.arianmusic.com/photo/uplo...di_stadium.jpg

Iranians are white according to the U.S. Census bureau.

Originally Posted by afghaniprinzess

so my question is about diversity in phoenix? i am persian/Muslim and lived in the midwest for a while during my high school years and experienced racism there as there wasnt much diversity. I guess the area we lived in (suburbs of omaha and kansas city) were mostly white so people werent used to anyone from a different ethnicity...

[bigtallredhead]

Terrapin: -hello.

Well, there are a lot of U.S. born americans of ALL races and ethnicity's who are poorly educated, and working class or lower class people. Also many LEGAL immigrants who are as well. I doubt a lot of White teens work at Mcdonalds in Phoenix but certainly a lot do still in some parts of the country. Here (in the S.F. bay area CA.) I don't see many very white teens nor very many whites period in fast food (I do see some), but I do see many African americans as well as Asians, though most are Latino. I do see many whites in pizzerias, as well as in restaurants that are not fast food, however, -with some frequency even as kitchen workers, though Latinos and Asians combined are dominant there.

However, there are actualy a lot of Janitors and building cleaners who are white and of all races, from teens to the elderly. About 60% of those workers are Latino here, and less then one forth are non Latino white, but I do see them and they include many young adults and teens as well as older workers. I think there are actualy still a lot of working class whites, including younger ones, through the country, but in some places much less then others. And with some tipes of jobs thera are just not many U.S. born people period working in within SOME parts of the country.

Most teens under 18 do not work these days, keep in mind, a lot of them WILL start working, including most of those who are not well educated (a large % still in most of the country), many whom will work in grunge jobs, and once they start to actualy HALF to make a living! Most do get to that point in time and when they do, -people are often suddenly quite willing to do many things they were not previously willing to. most would still rather earn an honest living then turn to crime and risk going to prison. ......A lot of mexican american teens who are not immigrants or even children of immigrants I believe do, however. The class status as well as work ethic of teens and others actualy DOSE very a lot around the U.S., -it depends on the region and most of the country is not really all that cosmopolitan, and most of the country actualy still has relitively few immigrants, believe it or not.

In Maryland most adult Latinos are foreign born, and most of the remainder are secund generation. That is also true in Los Angele's. But it is NOT true in Texas or in a lot of the interior southwest and great plains. It is not even true in all of California, -depends on where you go. ........Many parts of the U.S. actualy don't have very many immigrants, Maryland (especially outside D.C. in the suburbs) is one of the most affluent parts of the nation, and also has a large immigrant population. But it is not really typical of most of the U.S. you get much greater ethnic polarization in occupation in those sort of regions on average then you do elsewhere in the U.S. -There are many other areas like this (basically large cosmopolitan regions, -and some smaller ones too) that often dominate attention in the national media. But they are still not where most people in the U.S. actualy live.

A lot of the U.S. is still quite "rednecky", not just rural but also a lot of metro areas, -including large parts of California still. I know that is also still true in some parts of the Baltimore area in Maryland as well.

Originally Posted by Terrapin2212

LOL okay this is getting off topic but the poster probably said that girl was a "punk" maybe because her hair is dyed or something or how she is dressed (except for her uniform obviously.) If you can still see a lot of white teens working at McDonald's in Phoenix that's very surprising. Here in Maryland unless you go into the small towns you hardly see any teens working in fast food. No teen here ever seems willing to take a job beneath lifeguard, Outback, Abercrombie or the local movie theater but I have to admit there's a "racist" element to that too (this thread seems to be more about racism and less about Arizona now). My friend told me that last summer when teh economy wasn't too good he worked as a cook in a seafood restaurant but wasn't embarassed because this year a lot of "regular people" worked there too instead of just "illegals".

I have to admit myself and a lot of my friends have this problem, it's when we see a poor Hispanic person (like at a house where there are 10 cars parked in front and 20 people living in it) or we see something on the news where a crime suspect or drunk driver is Hispanic we automatically assume they are illegals. If a Hispanic speaks good English and acts educated and dresses well we don't assume they are illegal. And yes, even this far from the border, every Hispanic is referred to as a Mexican even though we actually have very few people from Mexico itself and a lot from El Salvador and Honduras. Personally I'm Asian and its the same, when my family sees Asians who are uneducated and speak poor English or are suspected of committing crimes we assume they are illegals.

I have no problem with people of other races coming here as long as they are loyal to the U.S. and abide by our laws. I also don't have anything against Mexico as a nation. I think they have a rich culture with the ancient Aztec empires as well as a long Spanish colonial history. Mexico is also one of the countries I most want to visit, especially its beach resorts. However I feel very strongly against illegal immigration and people coming here to cheat the system and who commit crimes.

So I guess after reading this forum, maybe Phoenix doesn't sound that much different from Maryland, or at least the DC area and don't know if its a good thing but where I grew up sounds a lot like Scottsdale too. Seems like racism isn't any more or less and traffic and road rage are still the same. Same problem with illegals. Subtle differences though....AZ is a lot sunnier and warmer which is good, and I would assume in Phoenix Chipotle's isn't considered an "exceptional" Mexican restaurant.

-Emil.

[matto]

I love the lazy white man hard working hispanic argument. I can tell you I started working when I was 14 and have worked the whole time, both while going to college and attending college. Most of my friends worked too, so to have this impression that whites are lazy or choose not to work is ridiculous, and just one of the few crummy arguments illegal alien supporters have.

What is next, if we don't want illegals here we are racist? Give me a break

[TurcoLoco]

Originally Posted by internat

Not all Persians are Muslim. Muslims aren't all of the same ethnicity and race. Did you really experience discrimination because of the way you look?

Some Iranians are relatively fair such as Ali Pahlavan. See the link below.

http://www.arianmusic.com/photo/uplo...di_stadium.jpg

Iranians are white according to the U.S. Census bureau.

Regardless of what US Census Bureau states, some people, very sadly, will always have those "Bigot" brand glasses on that makes them see others through black, brown, yellow and white lenses that are changed at their own discretion so you all can argue what is right or wrong all day long, it will not make a difference!

Loving is more powerful for the willing but hating is a lot easier for the ignorant...

[lethaiwepn1]

Wow, how did this topic swing to the Mexican population. It appears that hate is coming out.

Not a Phoenix native here but a Native New Yorker, my sister has lived in Phoenix for over 20 years.
She has experienced her share of racism years ago in Phoenix, she was told by a one of the housing complex, I do not recommend that you and your husband move in here, we do not have any interracial couples living her.

Whereever you go, there is racism, rise above it. We will never stop talking about it or experiencing it but we can try to rise above it.

I love people all people, I could careless what you look like, if you like me I like you. I just simply love fu**** life.


It sickens me to jear all of this but I know it's out there. I am not too religious but I hope and pray that one day, this will all go away.

I may have said nothing about the topic at hand, but I will say one thing. I wiah we could all live in peace

[ranman469]

i dont hate anyone! of any color! i do hate stupidy! and lazy people, and mostly mean with bad intentions people.
diffrent is good! colors,religions,opions, just do them peacefully with out malice. it is ok not to agree. but always be respectfull. just my 2.5cents

[GT350]

I've seen the Mosques, but I never see Muslims...they must all be hiding... Gee, I wonder why?

[GT350]

Racism is in Phoenix.. Visit any local forum and you'll see. Mostly against mexicans for what they're doing to the SW. Pruitt's Furniture issue is the perfect example...

[Arizona Annie]

Originally Posted by TurcoLoco

Loving is more powerful for the willing but hating is a lot easier for the ignorant...

Very true TurcoLoco, well said!