Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think the fact that Phoenix is in the middle of the Mohave desert will cause it to, if anything, shrink in the future. At least Houston can find a way to desalinate the gulf, if they can dredge the oil out of it first! LOL!
Phoenix is actually located within the Sonoran Desert. The Mojave Desert is located to the north and the west of Phoenix, primarily in California and Nevada. Although both are arid regions, they are distinct in terms of climate and vegetation.
Look, I'm not trying to be an ass here. And I suppose if my computer worked better I would spend the time copying and pasting my facts. But since my computer won't let me open PDF's lately, without knocking me offline, I have not been able to support my comments. Please go to this website. Morrison's Institute for Public Policy.
Morrison Institute was established in 1982 through a grant from Marvin and June Morrison of Gilbert, Arizona in response to the state's growing need for objective research on issues of public policy. Since then, Morrison Institute has conducted important work on a wide range of topics, including education reform, water resources, health care, human services, urban growth, government structure, arts and culture, technology, quality of life, public finance, the environment, and economic development.
It is NOT all doom and gloom.
But it does give some very solid and unbiased information.
What many of you don't seem to *get* is that I *like* where I live, I'm just trying to give my side of the story....
Last edited by londonbarcelona; 10-30-2007 at 09:02 AM..
The AZ Republic is not the sole authority on the Maricopa economy. It's a newspaper that is designed to sell stories. Obviously, a controversial subject such as this is going to attract readers which is why it was written and entitled the way it was.
It is true the Phoenix economy has to diversify if it is to sustain this type of growth. That's no secret. However, it's another thing entirely to suggest that we will enter some type of crisis. It's even more foolish to suggest that the city is growing for the sake of growth. People will not move here if they can't sustain themselves which leads me to my next point.
The growth is not supported in a vacuum like most of the respondents suggest. People are not moving here due to the weather and live on peanuts. It's pure idiocy to suggest people move here for the heck of it and then somehow don't find employment. That's the naive assertion that has been suggested by several respondents here and it's purely comical. Phoenix is an consumer driven market. Yes, we don't have vast numbers of Fortune 500 headquarters relocating here. However, who do you think works at those multiple Best Buys, Cosco's etc. that's on every strip mall block in the valley? Trust me, robots don't work there.
In addition, you don't need Fortune 500 headquarters to move here. Many Fortune 500 and 1000 companies create divisions here. Google recently did this 2 years ago. A lot of satellite branches are moving here and guess what.....they employ people.
I don't believe the conversation was about the amount of jobs, but rather the quality of the jobs. It's not a big surprise that Phoenix does not have many high paying jobs to offer people. This is a service driven industry area. Those jobs do not pay well, most of the companies will not give the employees enough hours to qualify for health insurance.
Google (I know someone who works there) was supposed to bring many new jobs into the area. But the company has found that the area does not have the talent they find conducive for their type of business and in turn has only hired a couple of hundred people and has no intention of hiring any more. In fact, the discussion of closing the doors at that location has been brought up more than once at the office.
And I'm sorry, but I disagree with you. I think it's virtually important that the area begins to deversify but unfortunately, the number one reason many companies won't come here is because of the education systems. They are poorly rated.
wow, you seem to have a reading comprehension challenge. gosh, as noted, I listed SOME of the major employers here, not all, not most, not unique. Nor did I ever state the number of decent wage jobs. You seem to selectively twist things to match your point of view. And remember, Wal-Mart is STILL the biggest employer in Houston as well. And PA. And the entire USA (apart from govt. jobs). Most astute members of the business community know this... retail and food service are simply among the biggest employers across all sates. gosh.
Yes, Wal-mart has the largest employeer in Houston:
HoustonChronicle.com - Chronicle 100 (http://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/special/03/100/charts/employ.html - broken link)
But 6 of the top 10 employeers in town were white collar jobs - I.e. higher paying jobs.
Houston has as many if not more employees than all of Arizona, and not as many of these jobs in Arizona are as white collar as Houston, with white collar job growth one of the largest factors contributing to true, sustainable growth in a community.
I don't believe the conversation was about the amount of jobs, but rather the quality of the jobs. It's not a big surprise that Phoenix does not have many high paying jobs to offer people. This is a service driven industry area. Those jobs do not pay well, most of the companies will not give the employees enough hours to qualify for health insurance.
Google (I know someone who works there) was supposed to bring many new jobs into the area. But the company has found that the area does not have the talent they find conducive for their type of business and in turn has only hired a couple of hundred people and has no intention of hiring any more. In fact, the discussion of closing the doors at that location has been brought up more than once at the office.
And I'm sorry, but I disagree with you. I think it's virtually important that the area begins to deversify but unfortunately, the number one reason many companies won't come here is because of the education systems. They are poorly rated.
The cost of living in Phoenix is higher than Houston especially in regards to housing so those jobs are not minimum wage or 12 hr jobs otherwise it wouldn't make sense how people afford to live here. A lot of those stores hire managers that earn 50-60K per year not just guys out of high school.
Phoenix is actually located within the Sonoran Desert. The Mojave Desert is located to the north and the west of Phoenix, primarily in California and Nevada. Although both are arid regions, they are distinct in terms of climate and vegetation.
It's actually probably true that the biggest threat to Phoenix's long-term viability is its environment. We all know about the heat island effect, the water issues, so on and so forth. There is an article which appeared in the AZ Republic recently, regarding the fight among 7 western states for CO river rights. A new proposal is on the table which would push AZ to the back of the line, and threatens the long-term water supply to Phoenix & Tucson. Here's a link:
Ariz. fights changes in Colo. River plan (broken link)
There's nothing like a natural resource shortage to put a halt to growth in a hurry.
Interestingly, I was reading another story about the drought and water shortage which occurred in Santa Barbara, CA back in the '80's. At the time, Santa Barbara was one of the new hot western boomtowns, a place everyone was trying to relocate to, it was growing like gangbusters and wasn't quite yet the exclusive resort community it's become. Essentially, they ran into a significant water issue, and in order to deal with it, they ended up building a desalination plant. While this is a viable solution to water shortage, it's also an exorbitantly expensive solution. Subsequently, between utility bills and taxes, it became an extremely expensive place to live. Growth, needless to say, slowed down quite a bit after that, much to the delight of the local residents who hated what had been happening to their community with the massive population influx and growth.
The difference obviously b/w Santa Barbara and Phoenix, obviously, is size. That, and there isn't an ocean next door, which would make such a solution even more expensive in AZ. If the brakes were put on growth here in that manner, it would be devastating to the economy. Could this be the Phoeinx of the future? We'll see...
It's not a question of "if" but when will Phoenix surpass Houston in population? It's no secret that people want to move near the West Coast. The weather here is perfect aside from the hot summers but at least they are dry and not sticky like Houston and Florida. We are within driving distance of LA, San Diego and Las Vegas for attractions whereas Houston natives can only really drive to New Orleans. Houston is flat whereas Phoenix offers hiking on it's mountains and snow skiing is just hours away. We don't have hurricanes, tornados, earthquakes or fires to worry about. The state has increasingly become more liberal and democratic and will likely become a Blue state in the next Presidential election. Houston is growing as well but it's still Texas and it has a very conservative and southern element that many don't like.
Do you think Phoenix will supass Houston in the next 12 to 20 years?
People in Houston can go to Austin and if they're smart they wont come back.
I don't believe the conversation was about the amount of jobs, but rather the quality of the jobs. It's not a big surprise that Phoenix does not have many high paying jobs to offer people. This is a service driven industry area. Those jobs do not pay well, most of the companies will not give the employees enough hours to qualify for health insurance.
Google (I know someone who works there) was supposed to bring many new jobs into the area. But the company has found that the area does not have the talent they find conducive for their type of business and in turn has only hired a couple of hundred people and has no intention of hiring any more. In fact, the discussion of closing the doors at that location has been brought up more than once at the office.
And I'm sorry, but I disagree with you. I think it's virtually important that the area begins to deversify but unfortunately, the number one reason many companies won't come here is because of the education systems. They are poorly rated.
I used to be an IT recruiter/headhunter so I'm very well aware of that industry particularly the software industry in Phoenix. There was more than enough talent in Phoenix. And I mostly placed server side/backend Java developers that earned well into the 6 figures so I'm not referring to NT admins. The problem with Phoenix was jobs not talent. In addition, it was extremely easy to recruit talent to Phoenix especially from the Bay area and Seattle. The cost of living is here is considerably less and it's the closest thing to California outside of California in regards to the overall look and feel of the city plus weather (aside from the summer). We just didn't have companies. But even then, companies were moving here.
Your friend at Google is right though. I'm not disagreeing with him. It's much easier to set up a company in the Bay area in which you can just steal talent from another company next door versus relocating someone. Yes, Phoenix has talent but not as much as those cities. However, Phoenix has significantly more talent in regards to IT related fields than Houston and most cities in the interior parts of the country. Most of the IT and hardware is concentrated near the west coast and parts of the east coast. So when one complains of talent here, that applies to the overwhelming majority of cities in the United States.
A "couple of hundred" people is quite a number of employees for a software/internet company. There were less employees in the Microsoft branch here years ago. 200 people is a lot of employees for a branch that just started here. I know someone who also works at Google and he made no mention of closing their doors and he is on their business development/account management side. Google is just a big name but there several other IT related companies in the valley that people haven't mentioned. Many of them are not publicly traded companies or Fortune 500 companies but that doesn't mean those companies are not profitable or viable.
And with all due respect Sheena, I'll take the humidity and the heat rather than residing in a convection oven 5 months each year. And we have spectacular thunderstorms.
And with all due respect to you, I would much rather take the convection oven than the steam sauna. You also have spectacular hurricanes and tornados.
I lived in Ft. Lauderdale. Sure it would be 95 degrees but you would feel like you needed to take a bath even when you were indoors. You would sweat through your clothes. Your feet feels sticky on the carpet and I'm not overweight or obese and I have dry skin. You have to lower your AC to 70 just for it to feel okay in the summer because it's so damp whearas in Phoenix, 75 inside feels quite cold.
I don't feel the heat in Phoenix because every place you walk into is freezing cold due to the AC. The only time I experience the heat is walking to and from my car. By the time I get home, it's dark or the heat has dissipated significantly. Unless you work outdoors in the day, you really have no reason to complain. The mornings and evenings are pretty nice especially with the shade.
I agree with the OP that the mosquitoes made outdoor events unbearable at times in humid environments. You can't leave the screen door open. You can't enjoy sitting outside without slapping your legs every few seconds. You need bug spray and a bug zapper just to be able to sit outside by the pool. And the humidity can make breathing difficult due to the water vapor.
What people fail to realize is that heat is annoying but not disruptive. Cold can be very disruptive. I was in Philadelphia 4 years ago and the airport, highways and trains were shut down for 2 days. I couldn't even get a cab; I called several cab companies and they closed down. You couldn't leave the city if you wanted due to the snowstorm. I'm sorry but even at 122 degrees, the highest temp. ever recorded in Phoenix in 1990, the airport in Phoenix was still viable as was it's highways and other forms of transportation. The last I checked, my car didn't slide off the freeway into a ravene because it was hot outside. The other key difference between heat and cold is that during the summer, the weather improves at night because it cools down. When I pull out of my garage in the summer, my AC kicks immediately. When you pull out of your garage in Chicago in January, you pray to god that your heat will work in 10 minutes. In cold weather, the evenings get worse because it gets even more cold. Medically speaking, cold can exacerbate many medical conditions including Raynauds, Rheumatoid Arthritis and MS to name a few.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
