When will Phoenix surpass Houston as the 4th largest city? (house prices, income)

[HelloWorld!]

Originally Posted by joninaz

Slight little problem in your theory... San Diego is pretty much built out. The open spaces are, for the most part, open "protected" spaces. Vegas has similar constraints - surrounded by a lot of Federal land.

I'd prefer Phoneix not be able to grow much more, but the reality is that there's still a huge amount of room to expand.

Also, the number of Fortune 500 companies is misleading. There are more than 2. Phoenix, like many cities, is generally considered a metro area with several other cities being part of the market. The numbers grow when you add in Scottsdale, Tempe, etc. Even then, it's still not the best measure. L.A. has relatively few HQs but that hasn't stopped them from being the second largest city. Houston has a lot of big energy companies with most revenues produced elsewhere. Meanwhile, a lot of Fortune 500 companies have major operations here... Intel, Google, Boeing, Honeywell, General Dynamics, Wells Fargo, BofA, Chase, etc.

I'm not bagging on Houston... it should continue to grow well as will PHX.
Today's economy is less demanding of workers living close to employers. In fact many are spreading their operations across multiple states. The answer to the original question will ultimately be decided on land availability.

I do believe!

[Guerilla]

Originally Posted by Master Shake

Just like Phoenix proper, Houston proper has pretty much filled out to the official city boundaries and is surrounded by suburbs – although Houston has a much bigger downtown.

However the greater Houston area has endless amounts of free (unrestricted – no reservation) land to continue growing new suburbs, which of course leads to atrocious freeway traffic and very long commutes. And we think Phoenix traffic is bad!

Well, there is actually a lot of empty land in Houston's city limits. Intown development is having the most growth, but there are suburban neighborhoods under construction in the South Side, and NE Side of Houston.

And Phoenix's Downtown looks like the Greenspoint District in North Houston by the airport. There is no comparison.

Greenspoint by the airport:


Downtown Houston in the background:


Uptown Houston is the second largest, then the Texas Medical Center. I won't show those, though. Greenspoint is actually about the fourth largest skyline in the Houston area.

Originally Posted by joninaz

Also, the number of Fortune 500 companies is misleading. There are more than 2. Phoenix, like many cities, is generally considered a metro area with several other cities being part of the market. The numbers grow when you add in Scottsdale, Tempe, etc. Even then, it's still not the best measure. L.A. has relatively few HQs but that hasn't stopped them from being the second largest city. Houston has a lot of big energy companies with most revenues produced elsewhere. Meanwhile, a lot of Fortune 500 companies have major operations here... Intel, Google, Boeing, Honeywell, General Dynamics, Wells Fargo, BofA, Chase, etc.

Actually no. The Phoenix metro area only has four Fortune 500 companies: List of major corporations in Phoenix - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . And Los Angeles area actually has 21: http://www.cincinnatichamber.com/pdf...Comparison.pdf

And yes, Houston has many energy companies at Fortune 500 companies, but it also has others like Group 1 Automotive, Sysco, Continental Airlines, Men's Warehouse, Waste Management, etc. All of those companies you named, except for Google, have a huge presence in Houston. Boeing especially. Many Boeing employees work near the Port and NASA.

I'm not bagging on Houston... it should continue to grow well as will PHX.
Today's economy is less demanding of workers living close to employers. In fact many are spreading their operations across multiple states. The answer to the original question will ultimately be decided on land availability.

Houston's growth is neck and neck with PHX. From 200-2006, Phoenix (city) grew by 196,000 and Houston (city) grew by 192,000.

[tscrilla]

Forgive me if this has already been said but I wonder if there are any statistics of how many move-outs there actually are in Phoenix? I know when I moved out of PHX there were several others that had done the same. Just curious...

[Guerilla]

And another skyline comparison:

Phoenix:






Houston:

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by Guerilla

And another skyline comparison:

Phoenix:






Houston:

Phoenix BLOWS Houston away!
Phoenix is much prettier than Houston in my opinion!

[Guerilla]

All a matter of opinion. I love Houston and its lush greenery. Tall piney woods throughout the city, and rolling hills in the northern suburbs (that are all in the piney woods). I'll take Houston any day of the week.

Phoenix feels like a big suburb to me (nothing wrong with that). And its Downtown is like a suburban office park. The city looks real clean (mainly because everything is new).

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by Guerilla

All a matter of opinion. I love Houston and its lush greenery. Tall piney woods throughout the city, and rolling hills in the northern suburbs (that are all in the piney woods). I'll take Houston any day of the week.

Phoenix feels like a big suburb to me (nothing wrong with that). And its Downtown is like a suburban office park. The city looks real clean (mainly because everything is new).

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to dis Houston,. I lived in Texas for years (San Antonio) and absolutely LOVED it! I would move to San Antonio again in a heartbeat. It's my number one pick to raise a family in the US.
I was basing my opinion on the pictures you posted. Do you have others we could see? What is the coast like?

[Guerilla]

Here are some photos of Galveston:













Kemah:





Clear Lake (Houston city limits):

[londonbarcelona]

[quote=Guerilla;2571957]Here are some photos of Galveston:


Clear Lake (Houston city limits):

quote]

It looks INVITING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *smile*

[joninaz]

[quote=Guerilla;2561516]

And Los Angeles area actually has 21: http://www.cincinnatichamber.com/pdf...Comparison.pdf

And yes, Houston has many energy companies at Fortune 500 companies, but it also has others like Group 1 Automotive, Sysco, Continental Airlines, Men's Warehouse, Waste Management, etc. All of those companies you named, except for Google, have a huge presence in Houston. Boeing especially. Many Boeing employees work near the Port and NASA.

[quote]

I'll trust Fortune's count for LA: FORTUNE 500 2006: Cities

But you still miss the point. Boeing, for example, moved its corporate HQ to Chicago but only moved 330 people there. 66,000 remained in the Seattle area alone. It was a nice feather in the cap for Chicago, but also cost them $60 million in grants and tax breaks for relatively few actual jobs created there.

I work for a major financial company based in NY but they don't that a huge percentage of employees live in other parts of the country as long as we're productive. The companies that do need a lot of workers near their HQs are those heavy into manufacturing. The danger there, however, is that if those companies have tough times, then a big portion of the city also hurts. See Detroit.

In any case, who the heck really cares which city is growing fastest or is biggest? If I had to live in TX I'd pick Austin first simply based on its smaller feel and walkable downtown scene.