Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Another opinionated and wrong post. Phoenix's economy is at most 23% real estate based, where as Houston's over-reliance on the oil industry is in the 50 percentile range. The median income in Phoenix $41,207 and for Houston it is $34,431. I think that speaks for itself. As for Phoenix being boring I disagree to, but that is more opinion.
Houston is a pretty diversified economy.
But I agree with you that Houston remains the energy capital of the world. Most major energy companies are primarily focusing on oil. Unfortunately, cities like Houston and Phoenix developed in such a crappy fashion, they are the cause for this reliance on oil. The companies are giving you people the fix for your addiction. If you drove less and lived closer to your job and other services, maybe the energy companies wouldn't rely almost exclusively on oil. But given the fact the energy companies are flush with cash, they are in an excellent position to acquire alternative energy start ups (this is already happening btw). You're fooling yourself if you think the largest companies in the world are going to disappear.
Not that I am defending either city per se. Personally, I am an urban person myself and the thought of living in either place is not appealing (I used to live in Phoenix). But if I was forced to choose, Houston would be slightly more preferable. It has more urban walkable neighborhoods, more high paying jobs, and better cultural amenities. Houston in a minor world city. Phoenix (which doesn't even make the ranking) is a regional city much like Kansas City.
I'm in the same boat as irwin. I like Houston. I like what it has to offer. I like how Houston is trying to densify it's core and am exciting to see how much it progresses. But I like dense more vibrant urban public transit oriented cities more. I like Washington DC, New York, Chicago more than Houston, Atlanta, and Phoenix. Houston is changing and maybe one day I'll move back. But as a 20 something person that likely won't change much when I hit my 30s, I like older cities more.
Freeway "culture"? You consider freeways a "culture"?
I think it is extremely arrogant to try to fit the definition of "culture" into the little box that you, and others on this thread, obviously are deadset on fitting it into. A definition of culture is: "the totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought." Nowhere does the definition say that culture has to include walkable streets, clean air, light rail, street festivals, or people who speak hundreds of languages within a four square mile area. Wherever there are people, there is culture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim
Materialism? smog? Those don't sound like great things to me. If Phoenix really is a "west coast" city, it's a "west coast" city in all the wrong ways.
Who said that all the attributes of the West Coast are always positive? If that were the case, Southern Californians wouldn't be moving to other places in droves. For better or worse, Phoenix shares a lot of similarities to Southern California. Not all are positive. Sorry.
Freeway culture is a very popular term, especially in the Los Angeles area. If you type it into Google, you will find 402,000 results. With the design of Phoenix as it is, there is an extremely heavy reliance on the Valley's freeways, which is only growing. I am sorry if it isn't the type of culture if you're looking for. It's reality. It's clear that you hate Phoenix. For that, I am glad that you left.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim
BTW, have you ever been to Albuquerque? It's a really unique city and has more local culture and a sense of place than Phoenix could ever dream of, despite being 1/5 the size. Phoenix could actually learn a thing or two from Albuquerque about culture.
I have been to Albuquerque. If you had taken the time to read what I said, I mentioned that Phoenix had attributes more akin to Los Angeles than to Albuquerque. Nowhere did I try to claim that Phoenix had more of your narrow definition of culture than Albuquerque.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim
And see, the thing is, while people in Phoenix (moreso on this forum than in real life) like to compare themselves to southern California and think they're "west coast," most people on the west coast could care less about Phoenix, if they have even heard of the place.
This is pure ignorance. Phoenix is composed of a very high percentage of Californians. People in California have heard of Phoenix. If they hadn't, again, why would they be moving here in droves? Many Californians have family members here, many in the business world are familiar with Phoenix because of branch offices, some know of Phoenix because of our sports teams, and some because of our notoriously hot summers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim
People from Phoenix like going to San Diego all the time, but I've never heard San Diegans say they can't wait to take trips to Phoenix. The truth is, when Phoenix tries to compare itself to the "west coast," it loses. When you look at it in terms of the desert southwest, Phoenix emerges as the largest city in the region. And when I spent almost a week in LA a few months ago on my apartment hunting trip, LA didn't remind me of Phoenix one bit. The endless San Gabriel Valley (leaving aside Pasadena) and Riverside and San Bernardino counties kind of reminded me of Phoenix.
I am impressed that you have had so many sit down conversations about regional travel with San Diegans. Believe it or not, Phoenix has world-class golf that attracts people from all over the world, that includes San Diego. Again, there are many from the San Diego area in Phoenix. More Californians are moving into Arizona than Arizonans moving into California. San Diego is not everyone's paradise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim
Actually, LA reminded me a lot more of Denver (the core, central city, not the suburbs) than it reminded me of anything in Phoenix. Santa Monica reminded me a lot of Boulder. San Diego in terms of landscape and urban geography reminds me a lot of Colorado Springs and suburban communities outside of Denver in the foothills (Castle Rock, etc). There are a ton of ex-Californians moving there too; Phoenix isn't the only place where Californians are moving to.
I have been to Denver many times. I, for the life of me, cannot understand how you think suburban Denver has more similar geography to Los Angeles than Phoenix does to LA. This statement is egregious. What geographic features look similar? The deciduous and conifer trees? The snow-capped mountains within sight almost year round? The desolate plains to the east of Denver? Really, this is really trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim
I've talked to a lot of ex-Californians on these message boards in different forums and many of them would never even dream of moving to Phoenix. It's only a certain type of Californian that prefers Phoenix.
Please tell what "certain type" of Californian prefers Phoenix? . Not the type in your faux high-class echelon? If those doesn't sound elitist, I don't know what does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim
Anyway, once I'm in LA (moving in a few weeks), going to USC, I'll report back.
Please save me your report for USC. I have been to LA plenty of times and know exactly what it looks like. I am not going to trust a report from anyone who attempts to tell me that Denver and LA have more geographical similarities than Phoenix and LA.
I think it is extremely arrogant to try to fit the definition of "culture" into the little box that you, and others on this thread, obviously are deadset on fitting it into. A definition of culture is: "the totality of socially transmitted behavior patterns, arts, beliefs, institutions, and all other products of human work and thought." Nowhere does the definition say that culture has to include walkable streets, clean air, light rail, street festivals, or people who speak hundreds of languages within a four square mile area. Wherever there are people, there is culture.
Who said that all the attributes of the West Coast are always positive? If that were the case, Southern Californians wouldn't be moving to other places in droves. For better or worse, Phoenix shares a lot of similarities to Southern California. Not all are positive. Sorry.
Freeway culture is a very popular term, especially in the Los Angeles area. If you type it into Google, you will find 402,000 results. With the design of Phoenix as it is, there is an extremely heavy reliance on the Valley's freeways, which is only growing. I am sorry if it isn't the type of culture if you're looking for. It's reality. It's clear that you hate Phoenix. For that, I am glad that you left.
I have been to Albuquerque. If you had taken the time to read what I said, I mentioned that Phoenix had attributes more akin to Los Angeles than to Albuquerque. Nowhere did I try to claim that Phoenix had more of your narrow definition of culture than Albuquerque.
This is pure ignorance. Phoenix is composed of a very high percentage of Californians. People in California have heard of Phoenix. If they hadn't, again, why would they be moving here in droves? Many Californians have family members here, many in the business world are familiar with Phoenix because of branch offices, some know of Phoenix because of our sports teams, and some because of our notoriously hot summers.
I am impressed that you have had so many sit down conversations about regional travel with San Diegans. Believe it or not, Phoenix has world-class golf that attracts people from all over the world, that includes San Diego. Again, there are many from the San Diego area in Phoenix. More Californians are moving into Arizona than Arizonans moving into California. San Diego is not everyone's paradise.
I have been to Denver many times. I, for the life of me, cannot understand how you think suburban Denver has more similar geography to Los Angeles than Phoenix does to LA. This statement is egregious. What geographic features look similar? The deciduous and conifer trees? The snow-capped mountains within sight almost year round? The desolate plains to the east of Denver? Really, this is really trying to scrape the bottom of the barrel.
Please tell what "certain type" of Californian prefers Phoenix? . Not the type in your faux high-class echelon? If those doesn't sound elitist, I don't know what does.
Please save me your report for USC. I have been to LA plenty of times and know exactly what it looks like. I am not going to trust a report from anyone who attempts to tell me that Denver and LA have more geographical similarities than Phoenix and LA.
It's definitely mine I'm a native San Diegan and for me it's truly paradise. And for the record yes I do eat fish tacos.
Phoenix and Arizona in general will always hold a special place in my heart though. I spent four years in the valley of the sun and for the most part enjoyed it. Sure, I had some complaints, but I have some complaints for my hometown paradise as well believe it or not.
What I don't get is the California Vs Arizona attitude some people have (not you miamiman), and you hear it from both sides. It is my opinion that these two states are the two most beautiful states in the country, again just my opinion, but both states have so much to offer and the natural beauty you get from either state is simply stunning.
I personally appreciate both states, and while I'll always be a San Diegan at heart, if I ever did leave the area again I would consider returning to Arizona. I would not choose Phoenix for personal reasons, but Arizona would be on my list.
Houston is not conservative. I don't know where you got that from....must have been from someone who doesn't know the city at all.
Houston has a slightly higher growth rate than Phoenix and people are still turned off by the idea of living in Arizona as the first thing that comes to mind is HOT. Houston has several beaches close to it and this is a big selling point.
The cost of living is also cheaper.
Houston only has to worry about hurricanes but by the time they hit the city proper they won't do anything except mess up a few billboards and maybe take out a few trees.
Houston also has plenty to do within driving distance. After all, Texas is a gigantic state, being larger than the country of France. There are desert canyons to explore, there are Mexican resort towns within driving distance, there are forests, mountains, lakes, rivers, beaches, flatlands...even swamps if you want those, too.
Houston is also the energy capital of the world and the oil industry will continue to fuel the city's economy for a long time to come. Gas that is $4 a gallon is not an omen of the oil industry's end at all. $4 is still cheap compared to many developed nations such as those in western Europe. As the price of oil goes up the economy in the city that makes its living from it will go up, as well. Houston is one of the very few cities in the nation where the economy is so good during this recession that manufacturing jobs are actually GROWING.
Houston also has a very large international crowd. I'm not sure about Phoenix' but I'll bet Houston attracts many more immigrants. There is a neighborhood for nearly every ethnicity under the sun in Houston and 3 out of 5 people living in Houston actually aren't even natives to the city.
As you can tell, I highly doubt Phoenix will overtake Houston anytime soon.
Houston is not conservative. I don't know where you got that from....must have been from someone who doesn't know the city at all.
Houston has a slightly higher growth rate than Phoenix and people are still turned off by the idea of living in Arizona as the first thing that comes to mind is HOT. Houston has several beaches close to it and this is a big selling point.
The cost of living is also cheaper.
Houston only has to worry about hurricanes but by the time they hit the city proper they won't do anything except mess up a few billboards and maybe take out a few trees.
Houston also has plenty to do within driving distance. After all, Texas is a gigantic state, being larger than the country of France. There are desert canyons to explore, there are Mexican resort towns within driving distance, there are forests, mountains, lakes, rivers, beaches, flatlands...even swamps if you want those, too.
Houston is also the energy capital of the world and the oil industry will continue to fuel the city's economy for a long time to come. Gas that is $4 a gallon is not an omen of the oil industry's end at all. $4 is still cheap compared to many developed nations such as those in western Europe. As the price of oil goes up the economy in the city that makes its living from it will go up, as well. Houston is one of the very few cities in the nation where the economy is so good during this recession that manufacturing jobs are actually GROWING.
Houston also has a very large international crowd. I'm not sure about Phoenix' but I'll bet Houston attracts many more immigrants. There is a neighborhood for nearly every ethnicity under the sun in Houston and 3 out of 5 people living in Houston actually aren't even natives to the city.
As you can tell, I highly doubt Phoenix will overtake Houston anytime soon.
All your doubts and assertions were answered in earlier posts. Houston does not have a faster growth rate than Phoenix and there is much more varied landscapes in Arizona. It was snowing last week in Arizona's ski resorts and mountain towns and cities while Phoenix was 70 degrees; a rare event but not unusual if you look at historical weather data as the weather Phoenix and AZ experienced only broke one record. That record was for rainfall in May. The latest snowfall recorded in Flagstaff was June 3. And AZ's mountain ranges have experienced summer snow showers. You can drive from below sea level near Yuma, to 9000 ft. in elevation. The tallest mountains in AZ surpass 12,000 ft. Texas has mere hills compared to Arizona's. And canyons in Texas? Sure, but none as grand as the largest canyons in AZ aside from the Grand Canyon. Arizona is broken down into many climate and vegetation zones: Alpine meadows and forest (neither exist in Texas), grasslands, desert, semidesert, pine forest, wetlands, and woodlands. In Arizona the climate can range from extreme heat (near Yuma) to climates similar to Canada and Alaska (Hanagan Meadow and the Peaks wilderness near Flagstaff, and the Sierras south of Tucson) in the same day. There is much to do in Phoenix that will keep the mind, body and soul happy. Most people refuse to recognize this because, I assume, they resent the growth Phoenix has experienced and its position as a "new" city. A city that has room to evolve into something dynamic and unlike any other city. Why else would so many post such untrue and damaging comments about a city they obviously care little to actually learn about?
Last edited by fcorrales80; 05-28-2008 at 01:40 AM..
Phoenix will NEVER catch Houston so keep dreaming. Houston is growing by leaps and bounds and has become a world class city. The educational institutions that supply Houston like A&M and Rice and UT Austin are so far ahead of ASU it isn't even funny. Add to that the major water issues that Phoenix has and you have an extremely unsustainable place. I can't imagine why anyone would live in a dusty desert city with nothing to do except a few casinos and work at a telemarketing firm! As far as other west coast cities go, SD and LA at least have some good things going for them, but being "close" to phoenix is NOT one of them! I think a better and more real question would be, when will San Antonio or Austin pass Phoenix for 5th place!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
. Not the type in your faux high-class echelon? If those doesn't sound elitist, I don't know what does. 
I'm a native San Diegan and for me it's truly paradise. And for the record yes I do eat fish tacos.
