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Old 11-12-2007, 01:10 PM
 
550 posts, read 2,186,958 times
Reputation: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG View Post
Cuffs are usually removed when the person gets locked up as they are no longer needed. The person is confined in lockup, why are the cuffs necessary?
She wasn't in "lockup", but in a holding cell. Totally different animal with significantly different operating procedures.

Many holding cells (which is where Mrs. Gotbaum was being held), have shackles attached to the floor/seats/walls to keep the accused from wandering around or from coming into contact when others are placed in the same holding cell. Can you imagine the outcry from the general public if a "small mom of 3" was left in a holding cell where no on is secured and someone accused of significantly more dangerous crimes is put into the holding cell with her? It is usually a SOP to have the inhabitants of these cells cuffed/shackled to a single spot to prevent them from coming into contact with each other.

Even though Mrs. Gotbaum was the only inhabitant in this cell (at that time), it's more efficient and significantly safer for her to be secured than to have to later cuff/shackle her when someone else needs to be added to the holding cell. Particularly since she already had a history of resisting officers, albeit a short history, but one nonetheless.

I don't think ANYONE could have foreseen the possibility of her either accidentally or purposefully killing herself with her handcuffs or shackles. The officers didn't receive ANY information about her state-of-mind or emotional/psychological issues until well after she'd been found dead. They are humans and can only make judgments based on the information they have at the time. That's all any of us can do.

This situation is heartbreaking and unfortunate. But it could have been averted at several different points and in as many different ways long before she ever reached AZ, much less before her encounter with MCSO officers. This was a recipe for disaster simply looking for a place to happen.

Last edited by diggitydot; 11-12-2007 at 01:22 PM..
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:11 PM
 
235 posts, read 578,712 times
Reputation: 71
Quote:
Originally Posted by irwin View Post
This is not normal and does not happen in other states (well, maybe in Texas because of their death penalty factory they have there).
This is absurd nonsense

Let's pick another city and spend 1 minute on google

Police, home probed in death - The Boston Globe

Man dies after falling ill in police custody - The Boston Globe

That was easy !
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
788 posts, read 1,264,961 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by irwin View Post
I think the one thing that needs to be looked at is the large number of people that seem to die in custody of both the sheriff's department and the police department out there.. That is not normal and does not happen at such a frequency across the country. Perhaps there is a problem with the training or funds provided to the departments.

Regardless, she should not have been left alone in her state of condition.
Maybe it's directly related to the number of meth labs out here (more junkies?)...or suburbanites who are addicted to prescription drugs? It seems that when someone dies, they are under the influence of something, most of the time.
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:25 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
788 posts, read 1,264,961 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG View Post
This womans family should forever hang there heads for not being with her...My wife and I discussed this and even when she is at her absolute "pissedest" moment(frequently) she would be with me.

All that aside, the handcuffs should have been removed when she was locked in. if all of this was covered previously, my apologies. have not read the thread.
Maybe they were trying to protect the cops, whom she was kicking and hitting.
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
788 posts, read 1,264,961 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by irwin View Post
This is not normal and does not happen in other states (well, maybe in Texas because of their death penalty factory they have there). If Phoenix and Arizona want to be considered a real, modern city and not a backwoods, dusty land of rednecks and three-toothed inbreds, they need to join the 21 Century and start acting like a civilized place where they don't take sadistic pleasure out of the death and torture of people in their prisons or held in police custody.
Wow, so much anger, so uncivilized.
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
788 posts, read 1,264,961 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by diggitydot View Post
This situation is heartbreaking and unfortunate. But it could have been averted at several different points and in as many different ways long before she ever reached AZ, much less before her encounter with MCSO officers. This was a recipe for disaster simply looking for a place to happen.
Phoenix police, not Maricopa County. But, I agree with you.

Also, would this have been as "tragic" if the offender had been a dirty, drunk homeless dude? I doubt it would have even made the news.

This point has been made before, I but I so dislike all the glorification of this woman because it plays into victimizing her, rather than acknowledging she was the criminal that she so clearly was. Yes, it's a tragedy for her kids, but I suspect that their life was already tragic with an alcoholic mother (even though she may have loved them dearly), and a petty and vindictive family. I feel sorry for them only because they were born into such a lousy situation in the first place. But the mother committed crimes and should not be victimized.
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Old 11-12-2007, 01:57 PM
 
2,109 posts, read 2,356,194 times
Reputation: 555
Quote:
Originally Posted by irwin View Post
Just a few stories I found off hand-held in police custody.
I could come up with 1 more "just a few stories I found off hand".
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Old 11-12-2007, 02:02 PM
SMG
 
Location: Gilbert
342 posts, read 449,991 times
Reputation: 345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artliquide View Post
Maybe they were trying to protect the cops, whom she was kicking and hitting.

maybe so. I just thought it was odd when she got locked up and they left the cuffs on...probably not. I do not know much about this stuff, but that had me scratching my head a bit.
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Old 11-12-2007, 02:32 PM
 
Location: NW Phoenix
477 posts, read 1,016,416 times
Reputation: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynimagelv View Post
seems funny that the "family" didn't care enough to accompany a DRUNK to detox but they LOVE her and MISS her when they smell money.
I don't think that was a fair comment! This woman was obviously sick! I have heard they offered to have someone accompany her and she refused. She was embarassed! People who are sick, mentally, and then abuse alcohol and drugs obviously cannot make good choices. This is what this story is all about. I don't believe this wealthy family is all about gaining money from this tragedy. True, they want to blame someone other than the wife/mother. I don't know what the answer is but, we haven't walked a mile in their shoes, we should not pass judgement! These poor children have no mother! May she R.I.P......
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Old 11-12-2007, 02:37 PM
 
Location: Gilbert, AZ
788 posts, read 1,264,961 times
Reputation: 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG View Post
maybe so. I just thought it was odd when she got locked up and they left the cuffs on...probably not. I do not know much about this stuff, but that had me scratching my head a bit.
I don't find it odd to shackle someone who is a physical threat to others. Just curious why that's odd to you?
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