can someone tell me about the Phoenix Biltmore district? (Tempe: apartment, renting)

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by sirwinston73

LOL ... I love the idea that old town Scottsdale is "walkable" ... it's nothing but touristy souvenir shops selling Indian jewelry and other crap that nobody wants ... there is *nothing* for locals in old town Scottsdale. When I lived in Scottsdale, even visiting family & friends were over old town Scottsdale after about 30 minutes and said "isn't there anything else to do around here?"

Old Town Scottsdale is where a lot of tourists and snowbirds are said to shop. They're buying authentic Indian jewlery made in Taiwan!
()

However, downtown Scottsdale is much different now, and is actually separated from Old Town Scottsdale. Downtown is now thought of as Scottsdale & Camelback ... the Fashion Square, the Waterfront, and a newer urban type of environment full of shopping, eateries, and clubs which cater to a younger, hipper crowd. Old Town still retains some of that old western image that Scottsdale used to have ... which is why it's appealing to an older crowd.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by sirwinston73

LOL ... I love the idea that old town Scottsdale is "walkable" ... it's nothing but touristy souvenir shops selling Indian jewelry and other crap that nobody wants ... there is *nothing* for locals in old town Scottsdale. When I lived in Scottsdale, even visiting family & friends were over old town Scottsdale after about 30 minutes and said "isn't there anything else to do around here?"

Yeah, I agree, all the "Indian trading post" shops get really tacky after a while, and it's funny watching the old tourists from the midwest getting amused by all that crap. However, either you haven't been to Old Town Scottsdale in years, or you haven't been looking very hard, because there is a TON of stuff for locals to do. At night, Scottsdale is a totally different place. The midwestern tourists have gone to bed, and a totally different crowd comes out of the hiding. Downtown Scottsdale is hands down the most exciting downtown in Arizona-- which admittedly might not be saying much, but it's true. Downtown Scottsdale is currently THE place to hang out for people in their 20s and early 30s in the Phoenix metro area. For starters, there are dozens of dozens of huge outdoor bars-- like Dos Gringos, ACME, Loco Patron, Salty Senorita, Flicka's, and Sugar Daddy's, just to name a few. These places are packed almost every night of the week. There are also a bunch of dance clubs, clubs so hip I doubt even I could get in.

There are tons of restaurants, both chain places and unique, local joints. There are wine bars, sushi bars, coffee bars, every thing you can imagine. Several movie theaters, including a small one that shows unique productions. There's a great comedy club called the "Comedy Spot." Several used bookstores, tons of beautiful art galleries-- many of which are well light up at night so you can "window shop" even at night. Scottsdale has a great performing arts center, a great museum of contemporary art, and one of the best public libraries in the valley. There's a lot of high-rise condo construction going on lately, so it's even starting to have a more "urban" feel. Scottsdale also has one of the most developed greenbelt/park/ bike path systems in the Valley, stretching miles and miles along the Indian Bend wash. When it comes to things to do for locals in Phoenix, Scottsdale is as good as it gets.

One thing I noticed that's kind of strange... people who dislike Phoenix in general seem to love Scottsdale... and people who hate Scottsdale love Phoenix as a whole, outside of Scottsdale. I'm assuming you can figure out which camp I fall in.

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Downtown Scottsdale is currently THE place to hang out for people in their 20s and early 30s in the Phoenix metro area. For starters, there are dozens of dozens of huge outdoor bars-- like Dos Gringos, ACME, Loco Patron, Salty Senorita, Flicka's, and Sugar Daddy's, just to name a few. These places are packed almost every night of the week. There are also a bunch of dance clubs, clubs so hip I doubt even I could get in.

Anderson's Fifth Estate is another one of those clubs near Goldwater Blvd. & Fifth Avenue. That place hosts a retro dance party every Saturday night, and the music is broadcast via Mix 96.9. It is said to be the longest running dance party in Arizona. The average age of the crowd there is 30s ... slightly older than the more "happening" places.

Anderson's also received some media attention recently about trans gendered people not being allowed in the restrooms ... but that's another topic.

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Scottsdale also has one of the most developed greenbelt/park/ bike path systems in the Valley, stretching miles and miles along the Indian Bend wash.

That's the McCormick Ranch area ... one of my favorite spots to drive through on occasion. Several years ago, I looked at some homes in that area, but the prices were a little high for me. Nothing cookie cutter or strip mallish about McCormick Ranch! It's an older, established area of Scottsdale that is very well maintained ... and the people who live there tend to be professional & friendly (not stuck up).

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

One thing I noticed that's kind of strange... people who dislike Phoenix in general seem to love Scottsdale... and people who hate Scottsdale love Phoenix as a whole, outside of Scottsdale. I'm assuming you can figure out which camp I fall in.

Interesting observation. When I first moved to Phoenix I was young and single. I lived in Central Phoenix in order to be near my job, but on nights and weekends, you'd often find me in Scottsdale. These days, I still go to Scottsdale occasionally for restaurants, shopping, and events -- but generally not more than once a month. In middle age, I've become much more appreciative of Central Phoenix and, somewhat surprisingly, of Tempe.

It's hard to tell how much of that trend is due to changes in me vs. changes in Scottsdale. It does seem like Scottsdale has a split identity. Part of it is clinging to the outmoded image of the "West's Most Western Town," while another part of it is trying to the center of nightlife and trendiness. I never liked the former, but when I was younger I was probably drawn in by the latter.

These days what I dislike most about Scottsdale is its tendency to try to define itself as separate from the Phoenix Metro Area. That's a short-sighted strategy that will hurt everyone, including Scottsdale, in the long run.

[Panks]

Originally Posted by silverbear

It's a great location, but be careful about deceptive ads, especially in light of the posting you made last week. See this map I created for Biltmore and Arcadia boundaries and be careful of places outside these boundaries that claim Biltmore or Arcadia locations.

Silverbear, could you please repost your map link..this one doesn't work for some reason

thank you

[exit2lef]

I think I deleted the map during a recent cleanup of my Google maps. I had tons of them, and my maps portfolio was getting as cluttered as my sock drawer. I'll create another one tomorrow and post the link.

[Plin]

I'm going to piggyback on this thread, since I don't think my question merits a brand-new discussion.

As I've mentioned before, I'm moving to Phoenix in May. I'll be coming out next month to find a place to live, and meanwhile I've been perusing the rental ads, this site, and every other resource on Phoenix I can find. I originally had thought to live downtown, near where I'll be working, but I've come to the conclusion that I'm probably better off somewhere else. I'll only have to go into work two or three days a week, and the rest of the time I'll be working from home. I'd like to live in area that has a fair amount to do within walking or at least short driving distance, and that isn't outrageously expensive. As a single person who is no twentysomething, but also nowhere near retirement age, it would be nice to be somewhere that is relatively lively. I've thought about Scottsdale, but I'd rather not commit to that long a commute, especially since it seems my salary won't go very far there, rent-wise.

At this point I'm mainly focusing my attention on the Biltmore and Encanto areas. What would locals say are the pros and cons of each? One advantage to me of the Encanto area over Biltmore is proximity to the light rail, which would take me straight to work once it's up. I've seen photos of Encanto Park, which looks fabulous, but haven't been able to get a feel for the residential area. Are there a lot of shops and restaurants? Would you say it's comparable to Biltmore? What are the main differences?

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by Plin

At this point I'm mainly focusing my attention on the Biltmore and Encanto areas. What would locals say are the pros and cons of each? One advantage to me of the Encanto area over Biltmore is proximity to the light rail, which would take me straight to work once it's up. I've seen photos of Encanto Park, which looks fabulous, but haven't been able to get a feel for the residential area. Are there a lot of shops and restaurants? Would you say it's comparable to Biltmore? What are the main differences?

I've already explained what Biltmore is in my earlier post on this thread. Encanto is totally different. Encanto is a pre-WWII neighborhood, one of the original "suburbs" in Phoenix. Homes there are unique, each with a distinctive style. Encanto Park is a nice park, although it caters to children more than adults, IMO. There's also the Encanto golf course nearby. In terms of shops and restaurants, Encanto offers pretty much nothing of interest within easy walking distance. There's no walkable, pedestrian oriented, neighborhood downtown like district around there-- just one thing here, one thing there off busy 6 lane arterial roads (like McDowell & 7th Ave). I've walked around that area extensively and I've noticed a lot of creeps walking around (including someone with a baseball bat), especially on the NW end of the neighborhood by Phoenix College. In this case, despite Encanto's nice old homes, I think Biltmore wins hands down.

[Plin]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

I've already explained what Biltmore is in my earlier post on this thread. Encanto is totally different. Encanto is a pre-WWII neighborhood, one of the original "suburbs" in Phoenix. Homes there are unique, each with a distinctive style. Encanto Park is a nice park, although it caters to children more than adults, IMO. There's also the Encanto golf course nearby. In terms of shops and restaurants, Encanto offers pretty much nothing of interest within easy walking distance. There's no walkable, pedestrian oriented, neighborhood downtown like district around there-- just one thing here, one thing there off busy 6 lane arterial roads (like McDowell & 7th Ave). I've walked around that area extensively and I've noticed a lot of creeps walking around (including someone with a baseball bat), especially on the NW end of the neighborhood by Phoenix College. In this case, despite Encanto's nice old homes, I think Biltmore wins hands down.

Thanks, that's very helpful! I was hoping to find a good compromise along the light rail line, but it looks as though I'll have to choose between the convenience of the rail and a place I'll be happy living. Or maybe take a serious look at Tempe, which I've been avoiding.

[exit2lef]

Here's the map that was requested earlier. It's unofficial and based completely on my own opinion. I welcome feedback from others regarding any boundaries that don't make sense, but please check my annotations first. In some cases, I've acknowledged stretching the classic boundaries of neighborhoods to reflect contemporary usage.

Google Maps

I'd also recommend this official City of Phoenix map of historic districts:

http://phoenix.gov/ftpalias/HISTORIC/allresdists.pdf (broken link)

With regard to Encanto, I'd speak more favorably about it than VP, but I do agree with him on the essentials. It's an attractive, upscale area of historic homes, but it is not near a walkable retail district. It's also over half a mile from light rail. If you wish to buy a home near light rail, there are two other historic districts I'd suggest: Willo, immediately east of Encanto, and Windsor Square, just northeast of Central and Camelback.