Rock 'n Roll theme park (Phoenix, Tucson: mortgage, hoa, debt)

[ZonyPony]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

The fact is that Arizona is no longer a small populated state, and we have a pretty large tourism industry. These are some of the reasons that are contributing to why there are plans for a theme park such as this. I don't disagree that much of southern Arizona is sun scorched ... but so are places like Laughlin and Las Vegas! Look at the meccas those places have become!

Duly noted, except that being a 60- (plus) year native of Arizona, that area 'twixt (that sprawling golf course/Autopia/Death Valley II known as) Phoenix and (that NIMBY-filled freeway-hating border patrol station known as) Tucson has always been such a decaying eyesore which the great Sonoran desert was slowly but surely reclaiming. Unfortunately, this promise of one more human-built wonderful venture in the middle of nowhere remains to be seen. Sorry! It sounds like just another Phoenician contractor's subdivided ripoff to me.


What makes you think that black singers and '50s rock will be ignored??? I agree that the artists you mentioned were some of the pioneers of rock & roll ... and I highly doubt if they will be left out when (or if) the theme park is built. Rock encompasses a wide array of recording artists ... from the early influences such as Bill Haley, Little Richard, Elvis (and even Louis Armstrong to a point). It also includes the British revolution of the '60s, the progressive rock of the '70s, the new wave & pop metal of the '80s, the grunge of the '90s, and the modern rock artists of today. This park has the potential to become a huge success based on the theme alone. It will attract the young crowd, as well as the older generation who helped bring rock to the mainstream.

All you have to do is read many of the other posts in this thread to realize that most people don't think about the black or even Hispanic artists first. Look at the so-called Mt Rushmore of Decayeds Theme Park. Four more white guys? (????) Remember - white America did not invent R & R.
I'm saying let's keep rock & roll focused on all of the contributors - not only the white and/or British ones. A Gene Simmons Coffee Shop? C'mon!
I hoping that there are also ideas based on Ritchie Valens, Trini Lopez, Chris Montez, Question Mark and the Mysterians, Cannibal and the Headhunters, and other such Hispanic contributors.

[ZonyPony]

Duly noted, Valley Native, except that being a 60- (plus) year native of Arizona, that area 'twixt (that sprawling golf course/Autopia/Death Valley II known as) Phoenix and (that NIMBY-filled freeway-hating border patrol station known as) Tucson has always been such a decaying eyesore which the great Sonoran desert was slowly but surely reclaiming. Unfortunately, this promise of one more human-built wonderful venture in the middle of nowhere remains to be seen. Sorry! It sounds like just another Phoenician contractor's subdivided ripoff to me.

[GilbertMom]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

LOL, mormons??? what? Well to me, I can see this park open 8 months out of the year if not all year. Remember out in Eloy the desert cools down at night much fast and quicker than Phoenix. So after sunset, it would be very nice! I remember living in other states where Theme Parks would close for the "off season" when it started to get cold...so like most of the year, LOL. This place would be open much longer than some other theme parks. Six Flags in Cali is in Valencia and a good drive from L.A. Also, Eloy is in between the two largest metro areas in the state, combining to make nearly 6 million and i-10 is one of the busiest inter-state highways in the nation from beginning in Florida to its end in Santa Monica, CA.

Why are we not allowed to know the identities of the "investors" who are asking the state for $80M to build this park? When it's a secret-- it's the Mormons. Mark my word. the Mormons have lots of land holdings in that area (that's the only thing in that area!). Remember recalled Arizona Governor Mecham? He was from Eloy. Are you familiar with the area?

[fcorrales80]

Originally Posted by GilbertMom

Why are we not allowed to know the identities of the "investors" who are asking the state for $80M to build this park? When it's a secret-- it's the Mormons. Mark my word. the Mormons have lots of land holdings in that area (that's the only thing in that area!). Remember recalled Arizona Governor Mecham? He was from Eloy. Are you familiar with the area?

LOL, yes I know the area. You sound like a conspiracy nut to me.

[GilbertMom]

Originally Posted by fcorrales80

LOL, yes I know the area. You sound like a conspiracy nut to me.

Oh, yeah. Question the identities of local businessmen that want to remain anonymous while receiving $80 million dollars from Arizona taxpayers for a "rock 'n roll" themed park in the middle of nowhere and I am designated a "conspiracy nut?"

Surely you can do better than that to try and refute my assertions.

[joninaz]

Forget the location for a moment. Let's look at the industry in general.

You'd have to say that Six Flags, with 20 very well known parks, is a good barometer of the industry... and they are hurting. In fact, with a very weak market cap of $112 Million, one could buy the whole company for a fraction of what they want to spend in Eloy. They've got some of the best parks and fantastic rides, but the company is almost BK.

Disney Parks seem to be doing better but have gone through huge swings of fortune. They've struggled in each new place (Hong Kong, Paris) and have needed to reinvent themselves at home. They are making money, but they also have a massive corporation behind them doing cross promotions. Watch the local ABC TV station doing a live remote film review of the latest Pixar flick from the California Adventure park with Disney Radio in the background and you must applaud their corporate self promotion. Any wonder why the Super Bowl MVP says they are going to Disneyland when they get a check for it and 1,000 replays on Disney-owned ESPN? And yet Disney struggles despite having TV/Film iconic branding with every generation for many decades. Gran watched Mickey, Mom watched Snow White or Fantasia, the 30-somethings had the Little Mermaid, Gen Y had Lion King, teens had Nemo, pre teens have Hanna, etc. - plus dozens more "icons" each year. Their marketing is so good that as a parent you might feel ashamed if you've not vacationed with them. And if you've been to Disneyland, it's not so much an adventure park than a giant merchandise store with a few rides mixed in.

Universal is another big player, but they've stuck to their kintting (Hollywood) and piggybacked on Disney in Orlando. It also helps they are cobranded with a major movie studio, the world's largest music label and NBC. If I'm not mistaken, the Tonight Show will be moving to CityWalk, adding to the experience. That brings to light another aspect... clustering of attractions. A family can go to Orlando and enjoy several parks. Same with LA/OC. In San Diego, there are 2 zoos, Sea World, Legoland, etc. Can Eloy stand alone?

The other major player is Cedar Fair and while their numbers are generally better, they put themselves on the market recently and nobody bid. Thier stock is down 30% in the past year.

So if Six Flags can't make a buck in some very huge markets with well-loved parks, and all the others are struggling, how does a new player fare, in an offbeat location not known as a destination for families? And how do they do this with no original merchandising, which is the cash cow? Disney will charge you $10 to park, $60 to get in and $30 for a t-shirt, of which they'll keep $28 since the mouse is their brand. Can you even sell an AC/DC or Beatles t-shirt without most of the money going to the publishers/artists? You can't take the kids to Disney and then reject going in becuase of the ticket costs... they'll hate you. But will a local dad pay even a fraction of that to take the kids to an Eloy park?

Just wondering about these things....

Also, is a rock and roll destination even unique these days? Why not go to Cleveland or the new R&R park in FL? Or just go to New Orleans or some other great musical city? I recall Hard Rock being a "must visit" spot in every major city years ago. Same with Planet Hollywood. The latter had major "stars" invested and still died.

Again, just wondering.

[ZonyPony]

Call me crazy, but do I keep hearing that naysayers should not be naysaying? That these negatories are not helping this latest Arizona-helping idea?
The good guys of Arizona are saying this, right? I think I hear them:
"We promise... this is not just another trumped up, get-rich quick scheme for a select few of us"!
"We promise"! Come on now...get thee behind this non-gouge-and-run venture - and do it now!"
Seriously though, I can understand making well thought out attempts at helping the Arizona economy. Its certainly a good thing to work on such noble things.
Surely there really are people out there who care more about my well-being and less about my pocketbook. Right?
Right!

[GilbertMom]

Originally Posted by ZonyPony

Call me crazy, but do I keep hearing that naysayers should not be naysaying? That these negatories are not helping this latest Arizona-helping idea?
The good guys of Arizona are saying this, right? I think I hear them:
"We promise... this is not just another trumped up, get-rich quick scheme for a select few of us"!
"We promise"! Come on now...get thee behind this non-gouge-and-run venture - and do it now!"
Seriously though, I can understand making well thought out attempts at helping the Arizona economy. Its certainly a good thing to work on such noble things.
Surely there really are people out there who care more about my well-being and less about my pocketbook. Right?
Right!

Exactly! Why should the taxpayers of Arizona give $80 million dollars to a secretive group to build a theme park in the middle of nowhere? There is NO CHANCE whatsoever of attracting any near the number of people to the area even to work there. Eloy is and always has been a dump. This is just another way to steal money from us. The developers behind this project know this-- that is why they won't reveal their identities.

[GilbertMom]

That's right, folks. A quarter of a BILLION dollars is what these scheming thieves want! Pinal County better watch out and the rest of the state will also be on the hook for these bonds:

Investors looking to build rock 'n' roll theme park in Eloy | Top Stories | FOX11AZ.com | News for Tucson, Arizona

[Valley Native]

Originally Posted by GilbertMom

Why are we not allowed to know the identities of the "investors" who are asking the state for $80M to build this park? When it's a secret-- it's the Mormons. Mark my word. the Mormons have lots of land holdings in that area (that's the only thing in that area!). Remember recalled Arizona Governor Mecham? He was from Eloy. Are you familiar with the area?

First of all, you are stereotyping the Mormons. Granted, I'm no fan of the Mormon denomination (or of religion in general), but your remarks about them & their business practices are nothing more than bigoted opinions. There are no proven facts to back up your allegations.

Second, you don't have your facts right about Mecham. He wasn't from Eloy. He was born in Utah, and lived in Ajo for a while before he moved to Glendale ... but he didn't live in Eloy. Even if he did, who cares? The guy was an unpopular governor who was removed from office, and now he's dead. Why even bring up Mecham? He has nothing to do with the theme park.

I think FCorrales is right. You really sound like a person who believes in crazy conspiracies. Worse yet, you sound like yet another common naysayer/NIMBY who is fighting the theme park. If you're against a theme park, you and the rest of the opponents don't have to be part of the attendance ... simple as that! You don't have to post distorted information to get your negative viewpoints across.