How does Phoenix compare to Vegas? (Scottsdale, Tempe: ski resort, condos, crime rates)

[radraja]

I'm assuming that the weather is similar.

But aside from that, how is Phoenix different in terms of aesthetics, culture, people, things to do, etc.? What would the transition be like?

(Just wondering...my mom is considering a move to Phoenix)

[ranman469]

when we were exploring for a new place to live, got tired of michigan. we went on a 9000 mile trip of discovery. and vegas is a place we looked into.
i found that there was not much to do there,for the family once you are done with the strip.
after 4 days we were out of things to see or do.
do your homework before you move anywhere, it is only you and yours you have to please.


we came to phoenix. lots to do a difrent adventure every weekend

randy

[sheena]

Originally Posted by radraja

I'm assuming that the weather is similar.

But aside from that, how is Phoenix different in terms of aesthetics, culture, people, things to do, etc.? What would the transition be like?

(Just wondering...my mom is considering a move to Phoenix)

I moved from Phoenix to Vegas for 1 year and ran back to Phoenx. Vegas is a great place to have a fun weekend but that's it. To me Phoenix is a lot cleaner and nicer and compared to Vegas a better place for a family. If I were retired or a single young person, maybe Vegas would have been ok for awhile. It's been a long time since I lived in Vegas, I lived there when Henderson was a one horse town like Surprise used to be, it seems a lot of people call Henderson home now. To me it looks like a bunch of cookie cutter houses on postage stamp zero lots. It wasn't my cup of tea. The weather is similar but slightly cooler. It actaully snowed alittle the Winter I was there and was cold.

[alterego]

I have never lived in Las Vegas, but I have visited many times. I remember talking to one of the locals who had lived there for a few years about what it was like to live there. He said it was pretty hard at first. Although there are some regular businesses and companies there, most of the city revolves around the casinos and night life. Therefore many of the people you meet will work in that industry. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but everyone works at night and sleeps during the day. He said it was almost like becoming a vampire.

[vegaspilgrim]

A lot of similarities and differences:

1. Weather: Both get extreme sun, extremely dry, hot as hell for at least half the year. Phoenix is slightly hotter-- it stays hotter at night, and the heat lasts for a longer period of the year. Phoenix gets slightly more rain. The desert surrounding Phoenix (Sonoran desert) is greener than the desert surrounding Vegas (Mojave desert). Vegas frequently gets a lot of dry lightning storms, Phoenix gets Monsoon action and dust storms. Both cities are really polluted-- Vegas might be slightly more polluted.

2. Layout of the metropolitan area in general: Both are late-20th century suburban cities built on a 1x1 mile grid system. New home and condo developments on the outskirts of Phoenix and Vegas look almost identical. Vegas's most upscale area is called Summerlin-- which compares roughly with North Scottsdale. Up-and-coming nice areas in Vegas include Green Valley Ranch (part of Henderson) and Aliante (part of North Las Vegas). Both cities have some REALLY ghetto areas. Both have a university serving the town-- ASU and UNLV, respectively. Phoenix has slightly more pre-WWII historic districts. Both cities have a lot of new urbanist and high rise condo development going on. Both cities are growing like mad and for the last 15 years annually compete with one another for the fastest growing city title. Both have one huge county: Maricopa County and Clark County, respectively. Both cities are getting really expensive to live in-- with Vegas being slightly more expensive-- approaching California-level prices in areas such as Summerlin.

3. Urban core: The two cities are radically different in this respect. Vegas, obviously has the Strip, the most glamorous 5 mile stretch of road in the world. I don't have to explain what that's all about. Phoenix doesn't have anything to compare to that. Scottsdale and Tempe have a lot of nightlife, and if you're a young person living in Phoenix, that's where you want to be, but it doesn't even remotely compare to Vegas. On the other hand, the Strip is primarily a tourist area. Most locals in Las Vegas hardly go to the strip. Vegas does has a lot of locals casinos around town, the most noteworthy being the Red Rock, a billion dollar hotel in Summerlin, which is where many local singles hang out to meet each other. Most of the bowling alleys and movie theaters in Vegas are in those local casinos. Downtown Vegas has much more action going on than downtown Phoenix, with the whole Fremont St experience, tons of people there, but it is an extremely grungy area. Downtown Vegas has a mega-homeless problem. Downtown Phoenix is more of a ghosttown-- nobody goes there unless they're going to work in an office building or an event is going on. Both cities are undergoing a lot of construction downtown, so they might look different in a few years.

4. Economy & Culture-- both are fairly "young" cities, population wise. A lot of transient, revolving door population in both towns. Vegas is entirely dependent upon construction and the service/hospitality industry. Phoenix is also heavily dependent on construction, but it has a much bigger diversity of jobs in addition to that. Both cities have large Mormon populations, and a large Hispanic minority. Both cities have people coming from all over the country-- especially California. On the whole, the people who live in both cities are VERY similar. Both have huge social problems, infrastructure problems, and bad schools. Vegas is arguably worse in this regard. Phoenix is definitely a more family friendly place than Las Vegas, no doubt about it.

5. Location within the Southwest. People have argued about this a lot, but in my opinion, Vegas has a superior location, which is hard to beat. In Vegas, less than 45 minutes from the center of town, you can be at Mt Charleston, a 11,000 ft snow capped peak with pine trees, with a small ski resort. I was there a year ago when it was 105 degrees in Vegas, and 75 degrees on Mt Charleston. Lake Mead is really close. Red Rock State Park, Valley of Fire are great if you like to explore the desert. Vegas is about 3 hours from the north rim of the Grand Canyon, Zion Nat'l Park, and Bryce Canyon. It's also about an hour closer to both San Diego and Los Angeles than Phoenix is. Phoenix has a lot of stuff you can drive to as well, mainly in northern AZ, but it requires much longer distances to get to the "good stuff" vs what you have to drive from Vegas.

6. General vibe/ my feelings: I like Las Vegas better, personally. Vegas is hands-down a much more exciting, vibrant city, with an extremely colorful history. Hundreds of books and movies have been made about Las Vegas-- it is truly an icon of the 20th/21st century, for good or bad. Phoenix, in comparison, is a very boring, sleepy town. I'm 22 years old, keep in mind-- so if I was in my 30s or 40s, I might think different.

[Valley Native]

I look at job opportunities first and foremost. Vegas has a large tourism base with lots of jobs in the hotel/casino industry ... but that's about it. Vegas has no large corporate HQs, no Fortune 500 companies, and wages are generally on the low side. Phoenix has a handful of Fortune 500 companies, and much more variety in the job market than Las Vegas does. That could be attributed to the fact that Phoenix has three times the population of Vegas.

Like Vegas Pilgrim said, it's a vibrant & fun place to visit with lots to see & do because of all the action on the Strip. However, I would not want to live there for many reasons: the lack of professional/corporate jobs, the dry climate (even drier than Phoenix on average), and the freeway system is mediocre at best. Commuting is mostly in cross town traffic ... meaning if you have to drive from the east side of Vegas to the west side, you have to go across the Strip, and that can be a nightmare any time of day or night. Phoenix has a much better freeway & street system, although the morning & evening commutes are nothing to brag about!

Both cities have their good points and bad points ... but I think Phoenix outweighs Vegas in the more important aspects. I do wish Phoenix would become a little more glitzy & more of 24 hour city, though.

[WANative]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

I look at job opportunities first and foremost. Vegas has a large tourism base with lots of jobs in the hotel/casino industry ... but that's about it. Vegas has no large corporate HQs, no Fortune 500 companies, and wages are generally on the low side. Phoenix has a handful of Fortune 500 companies, and much more variety in the job market than Las Vegas does. That could be attributed to the fact that Phoenix has three times the population of Vegas.

Like Vegas Pilgrim said, it's a vibrant & fun place to visit with lots to see & do because of all the action on the Strip. However, I would not want to live there for many reasons: the lack of professional/corporate jobs, the dry climate (even drier than Phoenix on average), and the freeway system is mediocre at best. Commuting is mostly in cross town traffic ... meaning if you have to drive from the east side of Vegas to the west side, you have to go across the Strip, and that can be a nightmare any time of day or night. Phoenix has a much better freeway & street system, although the morning & evening commutes are nothing to brag about!

Both cities have their good points and bad points ... but I think Phoenix outweighs Vegas in the more important aspects. I do wish Phoenix would become a little more glitzy & more of 24 hour city, though.

Valley Native--Just wanted to correct you on a few of your "facts"...
1) Vegas is actually the drier of the 2 cities--Phoenix gets approximately 7 inches of rain annually compared to 4 inches in Las Vegas. Phoenix is also hotter--on average Phoenix is typically 8-10 degrees warmer.

2) "if you drive from the east side of Vegas to the west side you have to go across the strip". When was the last time you visted Las Vegas? 1945? Vegas is a large city with numerous freeways that allow you to go anywhere you want without crossing "the strip". Ever heard of Hwy 215 or 515?

3) "Phoenix has a handfull of Fortune 500 companies". Phoenix has in fact 3 Fortune 500 companies. You also state the Vegas has no Fortune 500 companies--actually Las Vegas has 1 (MGM). Both are very weak numbers (especially when Phoenix's and Vegas's metro areas total 6 million people!).

Since Arizona and Washington state are about the same population I pulled up their Fortune 500 companies and they have 9. I wonder why more Fortune 500 companies arent located in either city/state....

Crime is something else that should be mentioned..Las Vegas has almost 3 times the national average for property and violent crime. Phoenix has twice the property and violent crime compared to the national average. Both are not good.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion but when it comes to facts please verify them before you type them. Thanks

[miamiman]

Originally Posted by ranman469

when we were exploring for a new place to live, got tired of michigan. we went on a 9000 mile trip of discovery. and vegas is a place we looked into.
i found that there was not much to do there,for the family once you are done with the strip.
after 4 days we were out of things to see or do.
do your homework before you move anywhere, it is only you and yours you have to please.


we came to phoenix. lots to do a difrent adventure every weekend

randy

Phoenix is Vegas have very similar weather during the summer, but not during the winter. Vegas in on average at least 10 degrees colder than Phoenix in winter. It often surprises people that the average high in Vegas is only about 55 degrees during the winter and about 30 at night. Snow is really not all that rare in Vegas either. Phoenix on average also receives almost twice the amount of rain a year as Vegas. Vegas is in a truly parched desert that doesn't usually get more than 4 inches of rain a year, while Phoenix gets more than 8 on average.

Phoenix's metropolitan area has twice the population of Las Vegas's metro area, but from my experience Las Vegas feels a lot larger. For one, Vegas attracts a MUCH larger tourist population, is a 24-hour city, has more compact development than Phoenix, and has more diversity. On the flip side, Phoenix seems like a much more family-oriented town. On the Las Vegas forum I recently saw people stating that all the major movie theaters in town were located inside smoke-filled casinos. I don't know if you mind exposing your kids to cigarette smoke, gambling, scantily-clad cocktail waitresses, a prostitute or two, and alcohol consumption just to see a Disney movie, but I know a lot of parents would likely have some issues with that. I can imagine that Vegas also attracts a generally seedier crowd than Phoenix, as many in the Las Vegas area work in the casinos.

On the flip side, Vegas is located closer to LA, Lake Mead, and the Grand Canyon for weekend getaways. Vegas is also located farther from the border than Phoenix, so illegal immigration is likely less of an issue.

Both cities do offer generally low wages, a lot of unskilled jobs, significant growth, new freeways, good Mexican food, good shopping, decent weather (I would choose Phoenix's climate over Las Vegas' any day), and great proximity to common points of interest.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by Valley Native

Vegas has no large corporate HQs, no Fortune 500 companies, and wages are generally on the low side. Phoenix has a handful of Fortune 500 companies, and much more variety in the job market than Las Vegas does. That could be attributed to the fact that Phoenix has three times the population of Vegas.

You're right that Phoenix has a more diverse economy (which isn't really saying much), however, Vegas actually has 2 Fortune 500's, both in the gaming industry of course:
254. Harrah's Entertainment (Las Vegas)
315. MGM Mirage (Las Vegas)

Phoenix area has four:
172. Avnet (Phoenix)
206. Phelps Dodge (Phoenix)
216. US Airways Group (Tempe)
379. Allied Waste Industries (Phoenix)

Both cities have their good points and bad points ... but I think Phoenix outweighs Vegas in the more important aspects.

I think you are probably right. However, one could also argue that if all one cared about was the "important" aspects in life (education, crime rates, job market, housing prices, etc), Phoenix would also be a bad choice. While Phoenix, especially those infamous Gilbert suburbs are more family friendly than Vegas, I don't consider Phoenix to be a particularly "wholesome" city either.

One other thing-- while both cities have a lot of sprawl, Vegas is a much more compact city. There is a clear, solid edge to development, where you go on I-15 US-95 or any number or other roads leading out of town, and all of a sudden, bam! you hit the edge of town and you're in the middle of the open desert. Phoenix sprawl is so gargantuan in size that arguably it takes all the fun out of living in the desert. And since the Vegas valley is now almost becoming built out, future growth in Las Vegas will have to be vertical, rather than horizontal development.

[Boatdrinks]

I think it depends on what your mom enjoys doing. If she'd enjoy heading out to see shows frequently, and likes the vibe of the Strip, I'd go with Vegas. Summerlin is a beautiful suburb of Vegas. It's a planned community, very new and clean and GREEN!!! which is such a refreshing change from the brown of Phoenix. It reminded me a little of back east, seeing so much grass and all the trees. Red Rock Resort, which is really nice, is in Summerlin so there's a casino nearby without having to trek to the Strip, though that's only about 15 minutes away. There are some nice areas in Henderson too. And of course if she could afford one of those multi-million dollar condos on the strip, she'd have some cool options

I love Vegas. I think it'd be a fabulous place to have one of my planned 12 vacation houses when I win the lottery. But I'm more in the "nice place to visit but wouldn't want to live there" camp. That said, I'm a different demographic then your mother. If she's a retiree and just wants to spend a lot of time golfing, playing tennis, going out at night and having fun, Vegas might be fun for her.

I actually think Phoenix would be kind of boring as a retiree, unless you had the money to travel extensively. We have all the golf, tennis, pools and weather that Vegas does, but we don't have the glitz and fun shows nearby. I think Phoenix for retirees is great if you're a snowbird so you're only here a few months a year, of if you use it as a home base but travel around a lot. But for me, I think I'd get really bored here after a few years if I was retired and didn't have family or work to occupy me day to day. That's just me though. I get bored sitting around for too long.