11-23-2007, 12:17 AM
124 posts, read
408,707 times
Reputation: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by
AZHawkeye
Hello, I am a dental hygienist and I work for Warren Family Dentistry on 32nd St. and Tatum in N. Phoenix( I recommend Dr. Warren or Dr. Kurt Rowe). We have a nice, clean up to date office that is not super fancy and I do not think any of the dentists I work for recommend unnecessary treatment. As far as whitening goes, we do have Zoom in our office, but we do not push it on people. Most often people ask me about it if they are interested. We usually take a full set of xrays every 3-5 years and the cavity detection xrays once a year on patients. I wouldn't go to an office that didn't do this. It is all about standard of care. However, some people are willing to receive low quality care in order to save a few bucks. We base our treatment plans on reading the xrays and baseline assessments, not on how much money we can get from the patient.
If you needed a "deep cleaning" that would be based on bone loss shown on xrays and pocket depths during probing. Do your gums bleed when you brush or floss? 3 out of 4 people have periodontal disease and do not realize it is related to heart disease. There is also no pain associated with periodontal disease. The mouth is connected to the rest of the body.
To the poster re: the wisdom teeth. As far as wisdom teeth go....most often, these days, they are recommended to be pulled. I agree with the dentist...they cause nothing but problems. I have never seen a wisdom tooth without a cavity, filling in it or some perio disease. They are difficult to clean for the dentist/hygienist and patient. In most cases they are useless teeth.
Anyway, I will get off my soapbox (can you tell I feel passionate about my career?)
I wish you luck in finding a quality, dental office.
I'm very skeptical of this practice based on some of the things mentioned. You have to take anything a hygienist says with a grain of salt. They are employed by the dentists and have an incentive to push certain procedures or whitening. Hygienists are paid well but can earn even more money if they encourage patients to pursue whitening or procedures. Dentists are well aware of their hygienists sales ability and will often go out of their way to retain the ones that can help pesuade patients to attain procedures.
(1) What is the difference between a full set of X-rays and "cavity detection" X-rays? You suggest a full set of X-rays every 3-5 years but encourage a "cavity detection" X-ray annually. Uh huh!
(2) Heart Disease does not cause periodontitis. You can be more prone to developing periodontitis if you have certain conditions like diabetes and Downs Syndrome. You can actually acquire subacute endocarditis through dental surgery. Organisms such as strep viridans are found exclusively in the oral cavity and they can only cause systemic illness through trauma caused by dental surgery. This is why many dentists prescribe antibiotics to patients prior to dental procedures particularly in patients with heart valve deformities. I'm a physician so I know a little something about pathophysiology.
(3) Zoom Whitening-if a dentist offers Zoom, it's going to unlikely that they won't push it on patients. I know with Bright Smile, dentists would lease the machine so if they didn't use it, they would lose money. I don't know the exact agreement between Zoom and dentists but I wouldn't be suprised if it was something similar.
(4) Don't be fooled by the term "baseline assessment" It's a fancy term for diagnosing a problem based on a subjective evaluation.
(5) I would question the hygienist's assertion that you are receiving poor standard of care if you don't pursue all of their recommendations. What do you expect them to say if you don't fall for their usual traps: "These patients were not as gullible as the previous ones" I know that dentists don't make much money through hygiene alone. This is why they want you to get additional X-rays at the very least. This is why they will also push Zoom or a bleaching tray. Dentists have much higher costs of running their practice. For example, most physicians' overhead is around 40-50%. Most dentists' overhead is between 60-70%.
Last edited by cxray; 11-23-2007 at 12:36 AM ..
11-23-2007, 01:48 PM
19 posts, read
77,640 times
Reputation: 18
In response to cxray:
Some hygienists may receive a percentage of what they produce per day, but I am not one of them. I am paid hourly. I do not receive any compensation for patients deciding to do Zoom or any other procdecure in the office. We do not do Zooms very often in our office so we probably are losing money on the light that was purchased and the product purchased to apply to our patients. The company that sells the product does not get any kick backs on Zoom procedures completed. I never push Zoom. Zoom and take home whitening work the same for the most part. The only difference is the time involved and the accuracy in application.
1. A full set of xrays(FMX) includes 18 films which show the roots of the teeth and bone around each tooth. This allows the dentist to check for bone loss, tumors, abscess. A panoramic xray is included in the cost(in our office) which shows the skull holding the teeth. This allows the dentist to see the Temporomandibular joint as well as an areas where tumors may be present in the bone, wisdom teeth placement and any other unerupted teeth in the mouth. The FMX is close up to the teeth and the pano is further away showing the skull structure. "Cavity Detection" xrays are called bitewings BWX. These are 2 films on each side of the mouth which show in between the teeth and do not show the roots of the teeth. These are usually taken once a year unless someone is very prone to decay and may be taken twice(not common).
2. Research suggests that there are links between perio disease and heart disease. You can research more on this on the American Academy of Periodontology site or the ADA. Studies have shown the plaque that hardens in the arteries is similar to the plaques/calculus that build up on the surfaces of the teeth. This bacteria travels through the blood stream. Periodontal bacteria have been found in the plaque deposits that narrow coronary arteries. I never stated that heart disease causes perio disease or vice versa. I simply was saying they can be related. The main commonality is the inflammation. There is also association of perio disease to diabetes, low birth weight babies or premature babies and osteoporosis.
3. I already addressed the Zoom
4. Yes, I agree baseline assessments can be subjective. However, I would be concerned if patients were not having any of these assessments done on them at all. In fact, I met a woman at a dinner party the other night who told me she never had probe depths taken on her before and her she never had a scaler used on her before. She was used to just having her teeth polished and flossed for her hygiene appointments! That is scary! Definitely not quality care, but I wouldn't expect people to know this if this is all they have ever experienced.
5. I am not trying to push or "sell" my office. I feel I work with doctors with integrity so I thought I would share and shed a little light on some things in the dental field. I do not receive anything for new patients coming to our office. In fact, I am leaving my job in a month to have my second child and will not be returning. The best advice I can give to people is to educate themselves if they feel uncomfortable about what is being diagnosed, ask lots of questions, and get a second opinion. It is exciting the changes that occur in health/dentalcare and the new information we learn. Just make sure you find a provider that keeps up with the current research and findings. I wouldn't want someone to treat myself or my family, who is practicing the same way they practiced 30 years ago. JMO.
11-23-2007, 07:18 PM
94 posts, read
226,477 times
Reputation: 31
Dr Okun in Tempe.
11-24-2007, 09:03 PM
Location: Mesa, Arizona
13 posts, read
39,828 times
Reputation: 15
Nope, haven't met one yet. Let me know if you do.
11-25-2007, 06:30 PM
9 posts, read
17,439 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by
cxray
What is Southwest dental? Is it a franchise or a group of local Ahwautukee dentists that formed a corporation? They don't order un-necessary X-rays or find 10 cavities after having none just a year ago.
I don't know what the setup is either they have eight locations. I can tell you I went to the one in Tempe, they told me I needed a bunch of crowns that my previous dentist never even suggested that i needed. They were in network and this implies that you shouldn't have a copay for a cleaning with my insurance. But they wanted to do a special cleaning that would not be fully covered by my insurance. So of course i would have an out of pocket expense for the cleaning I was not expecting. It seemed to me that they were telling everyone else in the waiting room that they needed this "special cleaning " as well. I would skip them all together.
11-25-2007, 11:28 PM
181 posts, read
1,074,346 times
Reputation: 134
11-26-2007, 11:37 AM
45 posts, read
139,516 times
Reputation: 28
Dr. Mitchell Cooper is good. He is conscientious about keeping costs reasonable. So far, my insurance has paid for everything he has recommended. His hygenist cleans your teeth with water! There is very little scaling necessary and no drill sounds. I would check him out if he is on your dental plan. His office is located on Thompson Peak Parkway in North Scottsdale.
03-05-2008, 07:56 PM
2 posts, read
8,294 times
Reputation: 16
i know a couple great dentists
I'm a dentist from southern cal and I know of a couple GREAT dentists in AZ. You guys have a handful of great one over there. Here are 3 that I highly recommend. Take your pick, I feel they are all honest docs with integrity. There dental skill is 2nd to none as well.
Mark Collins, DDS
Fort Mohave, AZ
Home
Howard Farran, DDS
Phoenix, AZ
Dentist - Ahwatukee Arizona - Today's Dental
Frank T. Nelson, DDS
Bullhead City, AZ
Nelson Family Dental, Bullhead City Dentist, AZ Dentist, Cosmetic Dentistry, Zoom! Whitening, Invisalign, Vizilite, www.NelsonFamilyDentalCare.com
Best wishes,
Bernie
03-05-2008, 09:53 PM
67 posts, read
225,715 times
Reputation: 36
LOL OKay I thought I was the only one with this dentist problem in the Valley. I went to a dentist in Gold Canyon who wanted to charge me for a deep cleaning where they actually numb your entire gum area and clean your teeth for some outrageous price!! NO WAY!! They refused to fill my cavity that I did have if I didn't receive this "Deep Cleaning" treatment.. I had just had my teeth cleaned the regular old fashion way in Virginia where I grew up about one year prior to going into this "ROBBING,THEIVING, PLEASE PAY FOR MY PORCHE" dentist!!...got out of there quickly!!
03-05-2008, 10:08 PM
6,585 posts, read
5,828,128 times
Reputation: 16778
OK here's a kind of dumb question--should I avoid dentists who do whitening and polishing? I am absolutely never going to have such cosmetic procedures done--my teeth are strong and yellow and all I want is a professional cleaning and check for cavities and once a year x-ray using modern equipment. I am suspicious of dentists who buy into this vain cosmetic trend that does nothing to preserve teeth.
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Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)