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Old 11-23-2007, 12:17 AM
 
124 posts, read 408,707 times
Reputation: 64

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZHawkeye View Post
Hello, I am a dental hygienist and I work for Warren Family Dentistry on 32nd St. and Tatum in N. Phoenix( I recommend Dr. Warren or Dr. Kurt Rowe). We have a nice, clean up to date office that is not super fancy and I do not think any of the dentists I work for recommend unnecessary treatment. As far as whitening goes, we do have Zoom in our office, but we do not push it on people. Most often people ask me about it if they are interested. We usually take a full set of xrays every 3-5 years and the cavity detection xrays once a year on patients. I wouldn't go to an office that didn't do this. It is all about standard of care. However, some people are willing to receive low quality care in order to save a few bucks. We base our treatment plans on reading the xrays and baseline assessments, not on how much money we can get from the patient.

If you needed a "deep cleaning" that would be based on bone loss shown on xrays and pocket depths during probing. Do your gums bleed when you brush or floss? 3 out of 4 people have periodontal disease and do not realize it is related to heart disease. There is also no pain associated with periodontal disease. The mouth is connected to the rest of the body.

To the poster re: the wisdom teeth. As far as wisdom teeth go....most often, these days, they are recommended to be pulled. I agree with the dentist...they cause nothing but problems. I have never seen a wisdom tooth without a cavity, filling in it or some perio disease. They are difficult to clean for the dentist/hygienist and patient. In most cases they are useless teeth.

Anyway, I will get off my soapbox (can you tell I feel passionate about my career?) I wish you luck in finding a quality, dental office.
I'm very skeptical of this practice based on some of the things mentioned. You have to take anything a hygienist says with a grain of salt. They are employed by the dentists and have an incentive to push certain procedures or whitening. Hygienists are paid well but can earn even more money if they encourage patients to pursue whitening or procedures. Dentists are well aware of their hygienists sales ability and will often go out of their way to retain the ones that can help pesuade patients to attain procedures.

(1) What is the difference between a full set of X-rays and "cavity detection" X-rays? You suggest a full set of X-rays every 3-5 years but encourage a "cavity detection" X-ray annually. Uh huh!

(2) Heart Disease does not cause periodontitis. You can be more prone to developing periodontitis if you have certain conditions like diabetes and Downs Syndrome. You can actually acquire subacute endocarditis through dental surgery. Organisms such as strep viridans are found exclusively in the oral cavity and they can only cause systemic illness through trauma caused by dental surgery. This is why many dentists prescribe antibiotics to patients prior to dental procedures particularly in patients with heart valve deformities. I'm a physician so I know a little something about pathophysiology.

(3) Zoom Whitening-if a dentist offers Zoom, it's going to unlikely that they won't push it on patients. I know with Bright Smile, dentists would lease the machine so if they didn't use it, they would lose money. I don't know the exact agreement between Zoom and dentists but I wouldn't be suprised if it was something similar.

(4) Don't be fooled by the term "baseline assessment" It's a fancy term for diagnosing a problem based on a subjective evaluation.

(5) I would question the hygienist's assertion that you are receiving poor standard of care if you don't pursue all of their recommendations. What do you expect them to say if you don't fall for their usual traps: "These patients were not as gullible as the previous ones" I know that dentists don't make much money through hygiene alone. This is why they want you to get additional X-rays at the very least. This is why they will also push Zoom or a bleaching tray. Dentists have much higher costs of running their practice. For example, most physicians' overhead is around 40-50%. Most dentists' overhead is between 60-70%.

Last edited by cxray; 11-23-2007 at 12:36 AM..
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Old 11-23-2007, 01:48 PM
 
19 posts, read 77,640 times
Reputation: 18
In response to cxray:
Some hygienists may receive a percentage of what they produce per day, but I am not one of them. I am paid hourly. I do not receive any compensation for patients deciding to do Zoom or any other procdecure in the office. We do not do Zooms very often in our office so we probably are losing money on the light that was purchased and the product purchased to apply to our patients. The company that sells the product does not get any kick backs on Zoom procedures completed. I never push Zoom. Zoom and take home whitening work the same for the most part. The only difference is the time involved and the accuracy in application.

1. A full set of xrays(FMX) includes 18 films which show the roots of the teeth and bone around each tooth. This allows the dentist to check for bone loss, tumors, abscess. A panoramic xray is included in the cost(in our office) which shows the skull holding the teeth. This allows the dentist to see the Temporomandibular joint as well as an areas where tumors may be present in the bone, wisdom teeth placement and any other unerupted teeth in the mouth. The FMX is close up to the teeth and the pano is further away showing the skull structure. "Cavity Detection" xrays are called bitewings BWX. These are 2 films on each side of the mouth which show in between the teeth and do not show the roots of the teeth. These are usually taken once a year unless someone is very prone to decay and may be taken twice(not common).

2. Research suggests that there are links between perio disease and heart disease. You can research more on this on the American Academy of Periodontology site or the ADA. Studies have shown the plaque that hardens in the arteries is similar to the plaques/calculus that build up on the surfaces of the teeth. This bacteria travels through the blood stream. Periodontal bacteria have been found in the plaque deposits that narrow coronary arteries. I never stated that heart disease causes perio disease or vice versa. I simply was saying they can be related. The main commonality is the inflammation. There is also association of perio disease to diabetes, low birth weight babies or premature babies and osteoporosis.
3. I already addressed the Zoom
4. Yes, I agree baseline assessments can be subjective. However, I would be concerned if patients were not having any of these assessments done on them at all. In fact, I met a woman at a dinner party the other night who told me she never had probe depths taken on her before and her she never had a scaler used on her before. She was used to just having her teeth polished and flossed for her hygiene appointments! That is scary! Definitely not quality care, but I wouldn't expect people to know this if this is all they have ever experienced.
5. I am not trying to push or "sell" my office. I feel I work with doctors with integrity so I thought I would share and shed a little light on some things in the dental field. I do not receive anything for new patients coming to our office. In fact, I am leaving my job in a month to have my second child and will not be returning. The best advice I can give to people is to educate themselves if they feel uncomfortable about what is being diagnosed, ask lots of questions, and get a second opinion. It is exciting the changes that occur in health/dentalcare and the new information we learn. Just make sure you find a provider that keeps up with the current research and findings. I wouldn't want someone to treat myself or my family, who is practicing the same way they practiced 30 years ago. JMO.
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Old 11-23-2007, 07:18 PM
 
94 posts, read 226,477 times
Reputation: 31
Dr Okun in Tempe.
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Old 11-24-2007, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Arizona
13 posts, read 39,828 times
Reputation: 15
Nope, haven't met one yet. Let me know if you do.
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:30 PM
 
9 posts, read 17,439 times
Reputation: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by cxray View Post
What is Southwest dental? Is it a franchise or a group of local Ahwautukee dentists that formed a corporation? They don't order un-necessary X-rays or find 10 cavities after having none just a year ago.

I don't know what the setup is either they have eight locations. I can tell you I went to the one in Tempe, they told me I needed a bunch of crowns that my previous dentist never even suggested that i needed. They were in network and this implies that you shouldn't have a copay for a cleaning with my insurance. But they wanted to do a special cleaning that would not be fully covered by my insurance. So of course i would have an out of pocket expense for the cleaning I was not expecting. It seemed to me that they were telling everyone else in the waiting room that they needed this "special cleaning " as well. I would skip them all together.
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Old 11-25-2007, 11:28 PM
 
181 posts, read 1,074,346 times
Reputation: 134
DR.Oogle: Family Dentists Ratings - Phoenix, Arizona
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Old 11-26-2007, 11:37 AM
 
45 posts, read 139,516 times
Reputation: 28
Dr. Mitchell Cooper is good. He is conscientious about keeping costs reasonable. So far, my insurance has paid for everything he has recommended. His hygenist cleans your teeth with water! There is very little scaling necessary and no drill sounds. I would check him out if he is on your dental plan. His office is located on Thompson Peak Parkway in North Scottsdale.
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Old 03-05-2008, 07:56 PM
 
2 posts, read 8,294 times
Reputation: 16
Default i know a couple great dentists

I'm a dentist from southern cal and I know of a couple GREAT dentists in AZ. You guys have a handful of great one over there. Here are 3 that I highly recommend. Take your pick, I feel they are all honest docs with integrity. There dental skill is 2nd to none as well.

Mark Collins, DDS
Fort Mohave, AZ
Home

Howard Farran, DDS
Phoenix, AZ
Dentist - Ahwatukee Arizona - Today's Dental

Frank T. Nelson, DDS
Bullhead City, AZ
Nelson Family Dental, Bullhead City Dentist, AZ Dentist, Cosmetic Dentistry, Zoom! Whitening, Invisalign, Vizilite, www.NelsonFamilyDentalCare.com

Best wishes,
Bernie
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:53 PM
 
67 posts, read 225,715 times
Reputation: 36
LOL OKay I thought I was the only one with this dentist problem in the Valley. I went to a dentist in Gold Canyon who wanted to charge me for a deep cleaning where they actually numb your entire gum area and clean your teeth for some outrageous price!! NO WAY!! They refused to fill my cavity that I did have if I didn't receive this "Deep Cleaning" treatment.. I had just had my teeth cleaned the regular old fashion way in Virginia where I grew up about one year prior to going into this "ROBBING,THEIVING, PLEASE PAY FOR MY PORCHE" dentist!!...got out of there quickly!!
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Old 03-05-2008, 10:08 PM
 
6,585 posts, read 5,828,128 times
Reputation: 16778
OK here's a kind of dumb question--should I avoid dentists who do whitening and polishing? I am absolutely never going to have such cosmetic procedures done--my teeth are strong and yellow and all I want is a professional cleaning and check for cavities and once a year x-ray using modern equipment. I am suspicious of dentists who buy into this vain cosmetic trend that does nothing to preserve teeth.
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