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Unread 12-03-2007, 04:52 PM
 
Location: Sunny Phoenix Arizona...wishing for a beach.
4,300 posts, read 9,458,112 times
Reputation: 744
Quote:
Originally Posted by GT350 View Post
I believe most of the hatred comes from what is happening to this city. I've been here now for 40 years and have seen this city change and most for the worst. Entire parts of west Phoenix is now run by mexicans. All their businesses are written in spanish and this would **** off anyone. There's a mall on the west side of town that used to be a very nice place to shop....now it's a flea market and if you're white, you're waaaay out of place....and no one speaks english there either. Mexico is a third world country and you're not going to change everyone to the type of living style of this country...most don't even want too. I live in a very white mormon style neighborhood in Gilbert. We had the first mexican family move in this year...no big deal until two more families moved in also...in the same house. Five cars out front and three garbage cans for one house. This is not allowed in residentail areas let alone HOA neighborhoods. It took the HOA eight months to get them to move. The family that owned the house could not afford it, so they had to sell it. This is all to comon too. I see it every month on the west side.....two, three families in one house.... Don't buy a $500K house if your washing dishes at Denny's.....


Bravo for the HOA!

 
Unread 12-03-2007, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Surprise, Az
3,106 posts, read 5,278,810 times
Reputation: 1310
Quote:
We had the first mexican family move in this year...no big deal until two more families moved in also...in the same house.
Common place (2 families) for Non Mexicans in San Francisco...but houses there are over 1 million.

Also common place in the Asian community in Los Angeles.

Difference?
 
Unread 12-03-2007, 09:19 PM
 
Location: So. Dak.
13,496 posts, read 23,329,159 times
Reputation: 14791
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibarrio View Post
Common place (2 families) for Non Mexicans in San Francisco...but houses there are over 1 million.

Also common place in the Asian community in Los Angeles.

Difference?
The difference is the way people from third world countries are accustomed to living compared to the way the Asians live. Since it's often Mexicans/Hispanics who are the illegals, let's talk about them. If they have grown up in our country, gone to school here, etc. they would be just like any of us are. If they've grown up in a third world country and come here, they will live the same way they were brought up. The only hope is that the ones who truly want to integrate, will be given the chance to and we will help them learn to live the way we live. And as far as the others, they just don't make good neighbors.

Last edited by Jammie; 12-03-2007 at 09:29 PM..
 
Unread 12-03-2007, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Inside the 101
1,478 posts, read 3,782,748 times
Reputation: 628
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jammie View Post
The difference is the way people from third world countries are accustomed to living compared to the way the Asians live.
But many Asian countries are considered "third world" or were as recently as a generation ago.
 
Unread 12-03-2007, 09:30 PM
 
Location: So. Dak.
13,496 posts, read 23,329,159 times
Reputation: 14791
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbear View Post
But many Asian countries are considered "third world" or were as recently as a generation ago.
A generation can make a lot of difference.
 
Unread 12-03-2007, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Inside the 101
1,478 posts, read 3,782,748 times
Reputation: 628
Maybe, but all this talk of "third world" culture reminds me of previous immigration scares about Irish and Italians. It was assumed that the Irish would never fit in because they were Catholics coming to a mostly Protestant country. Later, Italians were viewed as somehow too different because they came from southern Europe and not northern Europe. When fear takes over, there is always a way to create a distinction between those who are already here and those on the way. The phrase "third world' has largely fallen into disuse in economic development circles because of the way it segregates and stigmatizes huge swatches of the globe. There have got to be better ways to frame a discussion over appropriate immigration law and policy.
 
Unread 12-03-2007, 11:29 PM
 
920 posts, read 1,953,568 times
Reputation: 522
Actually, the top scoring students in California schools are not whites, but Asians - usually with immigrant parents. Overall, they place a huge emphasis on education and expect their kids, male and female, to go to college - even though the parents probably didn't. It's their #1 goal in many cases. I know one Korean family with limited funds who instead of buying a TV, bought a copy machine for the living room so the kids could be more efficient with homework. There was another Asian couple, when I lived in Venice, CA, who came by the back alley twice a day to dumpster dive, filling a shopping cart with bulging bags of crushed cans. Unlike most of the homeless, they seemed very efficient and motivated. I'd later learn that they had put their kids through Harvard via beer and soda cans. They were neither rich or poor - it was simply a means to fund tuition and that was more important than anything.

One of my good Hispanic friends, a pretty well known journalist in SoCal, gets a lot of grief for suggesting the Hispanic community would do better to adopt some of this thinking. He believes there's a cultural mindset among US hispanics that it's o.k. to not achieve. There's not a social stigma if you are a dishwasher or housekeeper - as long as you are working hard. Dropping out of high school isn't that big of a deal as long as you can get a job where you bust your butt - it'll be respected. He maintains this is part of a culture where "wanting to do better" is somewhat frowned upon as being disrespectful to family who first came here and did whatever it took to put food on the table. His biggest beef is how young women are not encouraged, and in some ways are socially discouraged to get a degree. Again, it's part of the cultural tradition. Their moms, grandmas, etc. never had access to higher ed and delivered a family. Why shouldn't a daughter do the same? And in many Machismo cultures, who wants women getting better educations/jobs than the men?

But that's an offshoot. And I'm not saying this is representative of the whole Hispanic community or even specific to that demographic. There are certainly portions of whites, asians, blacks, etc. who lack similar goals and/or face similar pressures to not be too driven.

That said, it makes for interesting discovery. Asians are 5-10% of the population in CA but make up 25% of the college population. Meanwhile Hispanics are nearing 50% and are extremely underrepresented in the college ranks and overly represented in the bad categories such as dropout rates. I've not dug deep into numbers, but I imagine the stats aren't that different for AZ.

The interesting twist, for me, is that I also have a group of friends in Miami of Cuban decent who visit from time to time. They are the children of Castro's exodus, whose parents were Doctors, lawyers, etc. in Cuba but had no professional standing in the US as refugees. As one of them put it, "My dad was a Dr. in Cuba but wasn't allowed to practice in the US. He got a job at a gas station. He later bought it. Then another. In time, he owned most of the gas stations in Miami." The formerly rich Cubans had to start over in Miami but are now a major players in the local economy and govt. Some say the put GWB in office over Gore.

Regardless, we talk of Hispanics, but there are so many sub groups. The Cubans are completely different from Mexicans. Full of brashness, bravado and holier-than-thou attitude, I think Cuban Hispanics would wipe the table of any group. My best friend from this group, George, describes Mexicans as being too subservient. He's not talking about them in their role in US society. He's talking about the culture in general, even to each other.

One of my fave people is Jaime Escalante, so I'll let that be the measure of my politics on this issue. In short, all kids are smart. Give them every opportunity to soar.
 
Unread 12-31-2007, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque, NM
5 posts, read 7,691 times
Reputation: 10
I'm what you would classify as a young middle class Hispanic male who is 6'3 and light skin color. I recently visited the Phoenix area regarding possible job transfer and liked the area quite abit. I am from Albuquerque, NM and I did notice some differences aside from financial and the overall size of Phoenix. For the most part everyone was fairly nice. While I was up north with my daughter however I encountered something I haven't experienced since I lived in Denver, CO.

We walked into a In N Out Burger to a sea of odd stares. I didn't take it too serious but after people kept looking at us while waiting for our food it became obvious to me I was out of my element. I still didn't care to much until after 15min our order was lost by the cashier then I knew it was time to leave. I experienced similar thing in certain parts of Denver so I still try not to take it personal. No matter where you go there will be areas that you are just not welcome. Just accept it and move on. You can't change the world by retaliation. Just be as friendly as possible and go where your welcomed.
 
Unread 12-31-2007, 12:13 AM
 
522 posts, read 1,416,147 times
Reputation: 312
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbear View Post
Phoenix has a very large Hispanic population. It's an interesting blend with some who have been here for generations and others who are recent immigrants, both legal and illegal. Frankly, I've seen much more prejudice against Hispanics than prejudice by Hispanics. These issues are complex, however. I've heard some highly negative comments about illegal immigrants from Hispanics who are U.S. citizens, so it should not be assumed that all Hispanics in the area think alike. As with any situation, you should approach with an open mind. The more you look for racism, the more likely you are to find it.
This is a great post. Ignorance is something taught - the change starts with oneself.
 
Unread 12-31-2007, 07:34 AM
 
227 posts
Reputation: 47
Default Are you kidding me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7_places View Post
I'm what you would classify as a young middle class Hispanic male who is 6'3 and light skin color. I recently visited the Phoenix area regarding possible job transfer and liked the area quite abit. I am from Albuquerque, NM and I did notice some differences aside from financial and the overall size of Phoenix. For the most part everyone was fairly nice. While I was up north with my daughter however I encountered something I haven't experienced since I lived in Denver, CO.

We walked into a In N Out Burger to a sea of odd stares. I didn't take it too serious but after people kept looking at us while waiting for our food it became obvious to me I was out of my element. I still didn't care to much until after 15min our order was lost by the cashier then I knew it was time to leave. I experienced similar thing in certain parts of Denver so I still try not to take it personal. No matter where you go there will be areas that you are just not welcome. Just accept it and move on. You can't change the world by retaliation. Just be as friendly as possible and go where your welcomed.
Are you kidding me? One out of every 3 people in Phoenix is Hispanic. I can't imagine that you get stares, especially if you are light skinned and eating at a fast food restaurant!
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