The light rail starts trial runs today (Phoenix, Scottsdale: lofts, how much)

[HX_Guy]

How do you figure that the light rail has to deal with the same traffic as stop lights as normal traffic? Have you looked into it...or is that just an uneducated guess?

Light rail runs in it's own dedicated lane and the stop lights are synchronized to allow it to flow through without stopping. Unlike a bus, it does not wait for people running after it and does not have to deal with traffic backups.

Here are the travel times:

− Entire 20-mile route: 55 minutes
− Chris-Town Mall to downtown Phoenix, 18 minutes
− Chris-Town Mall to the airport, 25 minutes
− Chris-Town Mall to ASU, 42 minutes
− Downtown Phoenix to Sky Harbor Airport Terminal Four, 18 minutes
− Downtown Phoenix to downtown Tempe, 21 minutes
− Downtown Phoenix to downtown Mesa, 40 minutes
− Downtown Tempe to downtown Mesa, 23 minutes
− Downtown Tempe to 24th Street and Camelback, 40 minutes

According to Google Maps, the travel time for the entire 20 mile route would take 31 minutes with no traffic and 40 minutes with traffic. I'm a bit skeptical with their 40 minutes as during rush hour, the 202 to the 10 to the 17 is a parking lot so 40 minutes is on the good end of things. Either way, you might spend an extra 10 minutes or so on the light rail...but you can use those 40 minutes to do things you wouldn't while driving while saving on gas and reducing pollution. Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.

[exit2lef]

Light rail is helped by two factors:

-- Priority at traffic lights. An approaching train will have a better chance of a green light than car traffic on an intersecting street.
-- Unlike cars, no back up of mulitple trains behind one another during rush hour. Therefore, no waiting multiple cycles for trains to get through the relatively few number of red lights they encounter.

[Sco]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

How do you figure that the light rail has to deal with the same traffic as stop lights as normal traffic? Have you looked into it...or is that just an uneducated guess?

Light rail runs in it's own dedicated lane and the stop lights are synchronized to allow it to flow through without stopping. Unlike a bus, it does not wait for people running after it and does not have to deal with traffic backups.

Here are the travel times:

− Entire 20-mile route: 55 minutes
− Chris-Town Mall to downtown Phoenix, 18 minutes
− Chris-Town Mall to the airport, 25 minutes
− Chris-Town Mall to ASU, 42 minutes
− Downtown Phoenix to Sky Harbor Airport Terminal Four, 18 minutes
− Downtown Phoenix to downtown Tempe, 21 minutes
− Downtown Phoenix to downtown Mesa, 40 minutes
− Downtown Tempe to downtown Mesa, 23 minutes
− Downtown Tempe to 24th Street and Camelback, 40 minutes

According to Google Maps, the travel time for the entire 20 mile route would take 31 minutes with no traffic and 40 minutes with traffic. I'm a bit skeptical with their 40 minutes as during rush hour, the 202 to the 10 to the 17 is a parking lot so 40 minutes is on the good end of things. Either way, you might spend an extra 10 minutes or so on the light rail...but you can use those 40 minutes to do things you wouldn't while driving while saving on gas and reducing pollution. Doesn't seem like a bad deal to me.

Even if I buy your argument that it is only an extra 10 minutes one way (which I don't), that is still 20 minutes a day, 100 minutes a week and 5,000 minutes or 83 hours of extra commute time each year. Needless to say, I don't think that people will be lining up to volunteer to give away 83 hours of their lives each year to ride on a train instead of drive. And even that analysis assumes that we are talking about current drivers that have no use for their cars at lunch, don't have kids to drop off/pick up at day care or school and that never do any errands or other activities after work that involve the use of a car.

Light Rail = boondoggle and waste of money

Commuter Rail = an idea that might work

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Sco

Even if I buy your argument that it is only an extra 10 minutes one way (which I don't), that is still 20 minutes a day, 100 minutes a week and 5,000 minutes or 83 hours or extra commute time each year. Needless to say, I don't think that people will be lining up to volunteer to give away 83 hours of their lives each year to ride on a train instead of drive. And even that analysis assumes that we are talking about current drivers that have no use for their cars at lunch, don't have kids to drop off/pick up at day care or school and that never do any errands or other activities after work that involve the use of a car.

Light Rail = boondoggle and waste of money

Commuter Rail = an idea that might work

As the cost of fuel goes up, IMO, you might see ridership increase

[Sco]

Maybe, but how much is two weeks of your life each year worth? I suppose we will all find out soon enough how successful light rail will be. My prediction, once the new wears off, the trains will be mostly empty, the only riders will be the people that don't drive right now.

[HX_Guy]

Originally Posted by Sco

Even if I buy your argument that it is only an extra 10 minutes one way (which I don't), that is still 20 minutes a day, 100 minutes a week and 5,000 minutes or 83 hours of extra commute time each year. Needless to say, I don't think that people will be lining up to volunteer to give away 83 hours of their lives each year to ride on a train instead of drive. And even that analysis assumes that we are talking about current drivers that have no use for their cars at lunch, don't have kids to drop off/pick up at day care or school and that never do any errands or other activities after work that involve the use of a car.

Light Rail = boondoggle and waste of money

Commuter Rail = an idea that might work

You are obviously against light rail so any positive that I or anyone can say about it will get dismissed.

Either way, why not look at it a different say? The 45 minute commute in your car is 225 minutes a week or 11,250 minutes / 187.5 hours a year that you are sitting in your car in traffic, frustrated, irritated and unable to do anything else but drive along at 10 MPH.
In those 187 hours, you could read a book, play a video game, or do whatever you wish. It might not be your thing, but I've taken public transportation in other cities and it was great to just look out the window while going somewhere and not worrying about all the other things associated with traffic.

Another way to look at it...40 miles in your car equates to say $6.00 worth of gas. Over a year that $1500.00 on gas for that commute. If you took the light rail, you can get a monthly pass for $45 or $540 a year, a savings of $1000. Not to mention, those 10,000 miles on your car will require 2-3 oil changes and other maintenance costs.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by Sco

Maybe, but how much is two weeks of your life each year worth? I suppose we will all find out soon enough how successful light rail will be. My prediction, once the new wears off, the trains will be mostly empty, the only riders will be the people that don't drive right now.

Honestly? If I am a businessman (as an example), and I can either fight the traffic getting to my office, or take the rail and relax, work on the computer and plan my day, the few extra minutes are well worth it

I would ask you to explain how light rails in other communities are successful inasmuch as you don't think the Valley one will be - places like San Diego, MARTA, METRO etc

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by HX_Guy

Another way to look at it...40 miles in your car equates to say $6.00 worth of gas. Over a year that $1500.00 on gas for that commute. If you took the light rail, you can get a monthly pass for $45 or $540 a year, a savings of $1000. Not to mention, those 10,000 miles on your car will require 2-3 oil changes and other maintenance costs.

Don't forget about reduced insurance rates as well - often based on miles per year driven

[aj661]

I was against it, but it's here and I hope it does well. If only they would consider renaming it to the Phoenix Area Rapid Transit. It would increase public awareness and the slogans for an ad campaign would be endless. Just a few suggestions...

"Do your part in reducing air pollution in Phoenix. PhART wherever you go"
"PhART twice a day-you'll feel better and your community will thank you"
"PhART today for a better tomorrow"

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by joninaz

Interesting take from the Goldwater institute: PHX Light Rail (http://www.goldwaterinstitute.org/AboutUs/ArticleView.aspx?id=408 - broken link)

Also, Reason Magazine has devoted a lot of coverage on light rail

I don't think the Goldwater Institute and the Reason Foundation have ever met a publicly funded rail transit system they like. At least they're consistent. As long as we're quoting think tanks, the Brookings Institution released an interesting study this week on the walkability of U.S. cities. Phoenix ranked 26 out of 30 based on today's landscape. That's not suprising, but an interesting conclusion of the report is that rail transit makes a huge impact on walkability and that new rail transit systems enable cities to at least partially catch up to cities that are already quite walkable.

It's an interesting study regardless of your position on light rail:

http://www.brookings.edu/~/media/Fil...leinberger.pdf